Messages In This Digest (4 Messages)
- 1a.
- Re: 1 Rep Max From: Giovanni Ciriani
- 1b.
- Re: 1 Rep Max From: Jerry Watson
- 1c.
- Re: 1 Rep Max From: Ralph Giarnella
- 2.
- Re: 1RM From: Dr. Tye W. Botting
Messages
- 1a.
-
Re: 1 Rep Max
Posted by: "Giovanni Ciriani" Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com gciriani
Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:17 am (PDT)
Ralph,
You have to add force of gravity to your equation (and any other other
force intervening).
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@yahoo.com > wrote:
> **
>
>
> I have been following this discussion with interest.
>
> My understanding of Max1rm is that it is simply a bench mark for an
> individual to use as a means of planning a training regimen and to measure
> progress over time.
>
> How this is Max 1rm is done probably matters only to the individual as
> long as every time it is measured it is conducted in the same manner.
>
> I am not sure that the Max 1 rm really measures max force but rather max
> effort. Measurement of force requires in its equation rate of acceleration.
>
> Force = Mass (x) Acceleration
>
> Ralph Giarnella MD
> Southington Ct. USA
>
>
> _____________________ _________ __
> From: John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net >
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 2:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
>
>
>
> I think often we get confused with what we are looking at. Keith is 100%
> correct that in a "TRUE" 1RM effort we will be applying the greatest muscle
> and mechanical force we can to that effort and "speed" will be a by-product
> of that effort.
>
> The confusion I speak of is when we begin to combine a specific
> "competitive" lift and the rule parameters of that lift, which may include
> a
> speed, or a pause, or some other component that will actually be NOT
> representative of a TRUE 1RM effort.
>
> So the take home is that the speed component is an observable by-product of
> a 1RM (or any RM) but it is NOT the component that defines the effort as a
> 1RM.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Casler
> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> Century City, CA
>
> -||||--------||||-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Supertraining@yahoogroups. [mailto:Supertraining@com yahoogroups. ]com
> On Behalf Of Keith Hobman
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
> Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests
> neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by
> requirements
> outside of force and velocity.
>
> Keith Hobman
> Saskatoon, Canada
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- 1b.
-
Re: 1 Rep Max
Posted by: "Jerry Watson" jwats8888@yahoo.com jwats8888
Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:17 am (PDT)
Moderator, sorry, forgot to sign the last one
To Ralph's point.
Force is linear and not entirely correct in this instance. The human body has joints and therefore and axis. Torque(rotational force) would be the appropriate term in this instance and requires a "moment arm"(i.e the distance the resistance is placed from the axis. T= F(mxa) x D(Distance from axis). Were just a big system of levers. Inertia, friction, etc are also factors that would be needed to take into account as well. Semantics...I know. But its the details that matter.
I would also be interested to hear discussion on the following:
Smith machine bench press vs. supine bench press. If I could do more "weight" on a smith machine, would that be idicative of "maximal neurological effort" or would less "weight" on a regular bench be "more" neurological effort in regard to a "1RM"...whatever 1RM implies??
Jerry Watson
Lake Mary, FL
From: Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@yahoo.com >
To: "Supertraining@yahoogroups. " <Supertraining@com yahoogroups. >com
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
I have been following this discussion with interest.
My understanding of Max1rm is that it is simply a bench mark for an individual to use as a means of planning a training regimen and to measure progress over time.
How this is Max 1rm is done probably matters only to the individual as long as every time it is measured it is conducted in the same manner.
I am not sure that the Max 1 rm really measures max force but rather max effort. Measurement of force requires in its equation rate of acceleration.
Force = Mass (x) Acceleration
Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA
_____________________ _________ __
From: John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net >
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
I think often we get confused with what we are looking at. Keith is 100%
correct that in a "TRUE" 1RM effort we will be applying the greatest muscle
and mechanical force we can to that effort and "speed" will be a by-product
of that effort.
The confusion I speak of is when we begin to combine a specific
"competitive" lift and the rule parameters of that lift, which may include a
speed, or a pause, or some other component that will actually be NOT
representative of a TRUE 1RM effort.
So the take home is that the speed component is an observable by-product of
a 1RM (or any RM) but it is NOT the component that defines the effort as a
1RM.
Regards,
John Casler
TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
Century City, CA
-||||--------||||-
-----Original Message-----
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups. [mailto:Supertraining@com yahoogroups. ]com
On Behalf Of Keith Hobman
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54 AM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests
neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by requirements
outside of force and velocity.
Keith Hobman
Saskatoon, Canada
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- 1c.
-
Re: 1 Rep Max
Posted by: "Ralph Giarnella" ragiarn@yahoo.com ragiarn
Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:34 am (PDT)
Weight = gravity. No gravity no weight
The point I was trying to make is that all we measure for a 1 Max rm is the weight lifted.
Measurements of work done, amount of force applied, power generated, require that we make other measurements other that the weight lifted.
It takes more force to lift 200 lbs in 2 seconds than it does to lift it in 4 seconds. Force = mass x acceleration. The greater the acceleration the greater the force required. In this case we need to measure how long it takes to move the object.
Work done = mass x distance. There is more work done if a weight is lifted 18 inches vs 12 inches. A tall person does more work lifting 200 lbs than a short person.
With regards: to power Power = works x distance/time. Moving 200 lbs 18inches in 2 seconds requires more power than moving 200 lbs 18 inches in 4 seconds.
Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA
_____________________ _________ __
From: Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com >
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
Ralph,
You have to add force of gravity to your equation (and any other other
force intervening).
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@yahoo.com > wrote:
> **
>
>
> I have been following this discussion with interest.
>
> My understanding of Max1rm is that it is simply a bench mark for an
> individual to use as a means of planning a training regimen and to measure
> progress over time.
>
> How this is Max 1rm is done probably matters only to the individual as
> long as every time it is measured it is conducted in the same manner.
>
> I am not sure that the Max 1 rm really measures max force but rather max
> effort. Measurement of force requires in its equation rate of acceleration.
>
> Force = Mass (x) Acceleration
>
> Ralph Giarnella MD
> Southington Ct. USA
>
>
> _____________________ _________ __
> From: John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net >
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 2:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
>
>
>
> I think often we get confused with what we are looking at. Keith is 100%
> correct that in a "TRUE" 1RM effort we will be applying the greatest muscle
> and mechanical force we can to that effort and "speed" will be a by-product
> of that effort.
>
> The confusion I speak of is when we begin to combine a specific
> "competitive" lift and the rule parameters of that lift, which may include
> a
> speed, or a pause, or some other component that will actually be NOT
> representative of a TRUE 1RM effort.
>
> So the take home is that the speed component is an observable by-product of
> a 1RM (or any RM) but it is NOT the component that defines the effort as a
> 1RM.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Casler
> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> Century City, CA
>
> -||||--------||||-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Supertraining@yahoogroups. [mailto:Supertraining@com yahoogroups. ]com
> On Behalf Of Keith Hobman
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
> Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests
> neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by
> requirements
> outside of force and velocity.
>
> Keith Hobman
> Saskatoon, Canada
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- 2.
-
Re: 1RM
Posted by: "Dr. Tye W. Botting" tye@kungfu.cc tyebotting
Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:18 am (PDT)
To clarify, you've got the right equation for force, but the acceleration
in this case comes from the acceleration due to gravity. Thus, force is
measured in Newtons (metric) or pounds (english). So, a 1RM done so slow
that the change in velocity is negligible would indeed be "the max force
you can exert." Any non-negligible change in speed would be due to
additional force exerted beyond the force the weight exerts downward due to
gravity (i.e. the weight's weight. ;-)). Measure the delta-V throughout
the movement, and you can backtrack to the instantaneous force exerted by
the lifter at any point during the lift - a good way to spot sticking
points and help target assistance work.
Tye W. Botting, PhD
Springfield, VA, USA
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 9:34 AM, <Supertraining@yahoogroups. > wrote:com
> I am not sure that the Max 1 rm really measures max force but rather max
> effort. Measurement of force requires in its equation rate of acceleration.
>
> Force = Mass (x) Acceleration
>
> Ralph Giarnella MD
> Southington Ct. USA
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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