Messages In This Digest (2 Messages)
- 1.1.
- Re: 1 Rep Max From: Giovanni Ciriani
- 1.2.
- Re: 1 Rep Max From: Fugettaboutit@aol.com
Messages
- 1.1.
-
Re: 1 Rep Max
Posted by: "Giovanni Ciriani" Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com gciriani
Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:54 pm (PDT)
Ralph,
It's a good point.
Please let me correct your equations for Power and Work:
Work = Force x Distance
Power = Force x Distance / Time
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@yahoo.com > wrote:
> **
>
>
> Weight = gravity. No gravity no weight
>
> The point I was trying to make is that all we measure for a 1 Max rm is
> the weight lifted.
> Measurements of work done, amount of force applied, power generated,
> require that we make other measurements other that the weight lifted.
> It takes more force to lift 200 lbs in 2 seconds than it does to lift it
> in 4 seconds. Force = mass x acceleration. The greater the acceleration
> the greater the force required. In this case we need to measure how long it
> takes to move the object.
>
> Work done = mass x distance. There is more work done if a weight is
> lifted 18 inches vs 12 inches. A tall person does more work lifting 200
> lbs than a short person.
>
> With regards: to power Power = works x distance/time. Moving 200 lbs
> 18inches in 2 seconds requires more power than moving 200 lbs 18 inches in
> 4 seconds.
>
>
> Ralph Giarnella MD
> Southington Ct. USA
>
> _____________________ _________ __
> From: Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com >
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:22 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
>
>
> Ralph,
> You have to add force of gravity to your equation (and any other other
> force intervening).
> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@yahoo.com >
> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > I have been following this discussion with interest.
> >
> > My understanding of Max1rm is that it is simply a bench mark for an
> > individual to use as a means of planning a training regimen and to
> measure
> > progress over time.
> >
> > How this is Max 1rm is done probably matters only to the individual as
> > long as every time it is measured it is conducted in the same manner.
> >
> > I am not sure that the Max 1 rm really measures max force but rather max
> > effort. Measurement of force requires in its equation rate of
> acceleration.
> >
> > Force = Mass (x) Acceleration
> >
> > Ralph Giarnella MD
> > Southington Ct. USA
> >
> >
> > _____________________ _________ __
> > From: John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net >
> > To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 2:56 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I think often we get confused with what we are looking at. Keith is 100%
> > correct that in a "TRUE" 1RM effort we will be applying the greatest
> muscle
> > and mechanical force we can to that effort and "speed" will be a
> by-product
> > of that effort.
> >
> > The confusion I speak of is when we begin to combine a specific
> > "competitive" lift and the rule parameters of that lift, which may
> include
> > a
> > speed, or a pause, or some other component that will actually be NOT
> > representative of a TRUE 1RM effort.
> >
> > So the take home is that the speed component is an observable by-product
> of
> > a 1RM (or any RM) but it is NOT the component that defines the effort as
> a
> > 1RM.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Casler
> > TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> > Century City, CA
> >
> > -||||--------||||-
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Supertraining@yahoogroups. [mailto:com
> Supertraining@yahoogroups. ]com
> > On Behalf Of Keith Hobman
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54 AM
> > To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
> >
> > Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests
> > neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by
> > requirements
> > outside of force and velocity.
> >
> > Keith Hobman
> > Saskatoon, Canada
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- 1.2.
-
Re: 1 Rep Max
Posted by: "Fugettaboutit@aol.com" Fugettaboutit@aol.com t-bagz
Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:55 pm (PDT)
Just to add to the mix.....
No need to add the force due to gravity...because Weight = mass of the object x Acceleration due to gravity (9.8m/s^2 or 32Ft/s^2)...assume that the mass and weight are equivalent unless you are trying to determine the 1rm on a different planet or underwater
F=ma
acceleration is a change in velocity over time, a = (vf-v0)/t. The load lifted starts at -0 then acceleration is induced and the load starts moving...the velocity has changed from 0 to X. Now, because the loads/intensity/mass of the objected moved is high the velocity of the movement will be slow and thus negligible.
Work = Force applied x the change in Distance, Power = Force x Change of distance/time = Power = F x velocity, (note change of distance over time is velocity)
1rm testing is low power high in force production why? Mass is high and the performer induced acceleration and the high mass object is moving BUT the velocity is low. Now oly lifts are high in power...why because there is a Force component but more importantly the movements have a high velocity component.
1rm testing will vary from individual to individual as WELL as from day to day (not that I would recommend doing daily 1rm tests). Why...1RM testing is essential a testing of skill. Within a skill there are substrates of learning and constraints of learning. Substrates are prerequisites to said skill: Cognitive, Perceptual, Physical, and psychological. Constraints of learning are: Environmental, Morphological and biomechanical. We utilize our substrates to overcome the constraints. (this is a complete summarization/watered down perspective of skill acquisition and development) . The prereqs./substrates will vary from day to day...I didn't eat anything (physical), I had a bad day at work (psychological) , thinking too much about the skill (cognitive), and wow that weight looks ginormous (perceptual) . These things vary from day to day and workout to workout....so what is a coach/trainer to do? Several things....you can calculate the 1rm utilizing a number of different formulas. Once you determine the 1 rm and construct loading schemes for targeted sets and reps you need to monitor the lifting performance for those designated lifts both from qualitative and quantitative. So, if the performer has a targeted lift for 85% of 1rm at 6reps and they perform 10 reps...you need to re-calibrate this load to ensure that you are hitting the targeted rep scheme to ensure the appropriate stimulus is being provided to induce the designated physiological change and thereby increasing physical performance in the future.
Ted Recitas
New York, NY USA
www.TedRecitas.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@yahoo.com >
To: Supertraining <Supertraining@yahoogroups. >com
Sent: Sat, Apr 21, 2012 7:34 am
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
Weight = gravity. No gravity no weight
The point I was trying to make is that all we measure for a 1 Max rm is the weight lifted.
Measurements of work done, amount of force applied, power generated, require that we make other measurements other that the weight lifted.
It takes more force to lift 200 lbs in 2 seconds than it does to lift it in 4 seconds. Force = mass x acceleration. The greater the acceleration the greater the force required. In this case we need to measure how long it takes to move the object.
Work done = mass x distance. There is more work done if a weight is lifted 18 inches vs 12 inches. A tall person does more work lifting 200 lbs than a short person.
With regards: to power Power = works x distance/time. Moving 200 lbs 18inches in 2 seconds requires more power than moving 200 lbs 18 inches in 4 seconds.
Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA
_____________________ _________ __
From: Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com >
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
Ralph,
You have to add force of gravity to your equation (and any other other
force intervening).
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@yahoo.com > wrote:
> **
>
>
> I have been following this discussion with interest.
>
> My understanding of Max1rm is that it is simply a bench mark for an
> individual to use as a means of planning a training regimen and to measure
> progress over time.
>
> How this is Max 1rm is done probably matters only to the individual as
> long as every time it is measured it is conducted in the same manner.
>
> I am not sure that the Max 1 rm really measures max force but rather max
> effort. Measurement of force requires in its equation rate of acceleration.
>
> Force = Mass (x) Acceleration
>
> Ralph Giarnella MD
> Southington Ct. USA
>
>
> _____________________ _________ __
> From: John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net >
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 2:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
>
>
>
> I think often we get confused with what we are looking at. Keith is 100%
> correct that in a "TRUE" 1RM effort we will be applying the greatest muscle
> and mechanical force we can to that effort and "speed" will be a by-product
> of that effort.
>
> The confusion I speak of is when we begin to combine a specific
> "competitive" lift and the rule parameters of that lift, which may include
> a
> speed, or a pause, or some other component that will actually be NOT
> representative of a TRUE 1RM effort.
>
> So the take home is that the speed component is an observable by-product of
> a 1RM (or any RM) but it is NOT the component that defines the effort as a
> 1RM.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Casler
> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> Century City, CA
>
> -||||--------||||-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Supertraining@yahoogroups. [mailto:Supertraining@com yahoogroups. ]com
> On Behalf Of Keith Hobman
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
> Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests
> neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by
> requirements
> outside of force and velocity.
>
> Keith Hobman
> Saskatoon, Canada
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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