Messages In This Digest (4 Messages)
- 1a.
- Re: Muscle mass From: Ralph Giarnella
- 1b.
- Re: Muscle mass From: Paul Cialone
- 1c.
- Re: Muscle mass From: CoachJ1@aol.com
- 2a.
- Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy From: carruthersjam
Messages
- 1a.
-
Re: Muscle mass
Posted by: "Ralph Giarnella" ragiarn@yahoo.com ragiarn
Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:43 am (PDT)
?"After the summit at BALCO, Montgomery [sprinter Tim] underwent a startling transformation. By Conte's account, he gained 28 pounds of muscle in only
eight weeks."
Is that with or without magic supplements?
I vaguely remember some one posting that in non drug enhanced athletes it might take up to a year to gain 8-10 lbs of real muscle.
Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA
_____________________ _________ __
From: "CoachJ1@aol.com " <CoachJ1@aol.com >
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2012 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: Muscle mass
In a message dated 6/9/2012 1:07:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com writes:
I was thinking about the same after reading the story of the trainer who
gained weight and then lost it again. It didn't seem convincing, especially
in view of the posts of the last 6 months, discussing how much weight one
can lose without losing muscle mass.
In the Game of Shadows,authors Wada and Williams point out the following:
"After the summit at BALCO, Montgomery [sprinter Tim] underwent a
startling transformation. By Conte's account, he gained 28 pounds of muscle in only
eight weeks."
Ken Jakalski
Lisle High School
Lisle, IL USA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- 1b.
-
Re: Muscle mass
Posted by: "Paul Cialone" Aldogate@aol.com
Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:06 pm (PDT)
We did a study series on over 200 hs/college athletes using strength training for performance enhancement as opposed to mass gain per se.
Our study and control groups were given nutritional, recovery and mental training information that was identical, as was the follow up. The difference between groups was the strength training periodization scheme, with total volume controlled across groups for each 6wk training and 2wk taper cycle.
Across groups with follow up over the course of 6mos in training+competitive seasons, we saw at most a 4lb total wt gain and 8lb muscle gain in one study arm. Over the study duration, the entire athlete population averaged 2lb total wt gain and 4lb muscle mass. Bodyfats were measured every 6wks and #s are rounded for simplicity.
We had football, hockey, soccer and basketball athletes in the study, which focused on measures of speed, strength etc as outcomes. Mass gains as a percentage of start weight/lbm were similar by sport.
This seems in line with the thread here in terms of athletes without PED gaining muscle mass is concerned. We were quite a bit more aggressive with support...following meal diaries and so on...and we didn't aim for mass per se...but the data were strong and it was a big longitudinal study.
Paul Cialone, MD
Rochester, NY, USA
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@yahoo.com >
Sender: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 07:51:13
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. <Supertraining@com yahoogroups. >com
Reply-To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: Muscle mass
?"After the summit at BALCO, Montgomery [sprinter Tim] underwent a startling transformation. By Conte's account, he gained 28 pounds of muscle in only
eight weeks."
Is that with or without magic supplements?
I vaguely remember some one posting that in non drug enhanced athletes it might take up to a year to gain 8-10 lbs of real muscle.
Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA
_____________________ _________ __
From: "CoachJ1@aol.com " <CoachJ1@aol.com >
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2012 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: Muscle mass
In a message dated 6/9/2012 1:07:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com writes:
I was thinking about the same after reading the story of the trainer who
gained weight and then lost it again. It didn't seem convincing, especially
in view of the posts of the last 6 months, discussing how much weight one
can lose without losing muscle mass.
In the Game of Shadows,authors Wada and Williams point out the following:
"After the summit at BALCO, Montgomery [sprinter Tim] underwent a
startling transformation. By Conte's account, he gained 28 pounds of muscle in only
eight weeks."
Ken Jakalski
Lisle High School
Lisle, IL USA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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- 1c.
-
Re: Muscle mass
Posted by: "CoachJ1@aol.com" CoachJ1@aol.com coachj12002
Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:33 pm (PDT)
Hi Ralph!
In a message dated 6/10/2012 1:43:28 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
ragiarn@yahoo.com writes:
that with or without magic supplements?
I vaguely remember some one posting that in non drug enhanced athletes it
might take up to a year to gain 8-10 lbs of real muscle.
No. that is enhanced.
Conte said he had Montgomery "cocktailing The Clear, growth hormone,
insulin, EPO, and adrenaline."
Not only had Montgomery "won the American title using Conte's arsenal of
banned substances, he also received a letter from the U.S. Anti-doping Agency
congratulating him on providing a clean test sample after is race."
Ken Jakalski
Lisle, Illinois USA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- 2a.
-
Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
Posted by: "carruthersjam" Carruthersjam@aol.com carruthersjam
Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:32 pm (PDT)
--- In Supertraining@yahoogroups. , "Anthony Pitruzzello" <tonypit45@.com ..> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I recently posted a question about rate of hypertrophy – basically, what are
> the optimal realistic results a person can expect, vs. the endless claims in
> the muscle mags, e.g., "Gain 20-30 pounds of lean muscle mass in six
> weeks!!!" I compared the responses with some other data, and I thought I
> would share it with the group.
>
> *Joe Joleti responded:*
>
> *According to The Colgan **Institute** of **Nutritional Sciences** the human
>
> body can only gain about 1oz of muscle per day or .437493lbs a week
> (almost ½ lb). Furthermore the most muscle mass gained by anyone in a
> year under experiment at the institution was 18.25lbs***
>
> My understanding is that muscle is mostly water (75% to 80%) and protein
> with a small amount of minerals (20% to 25%). When Joe says "1 oz of muscle
> per day," I take that to mean total muscle (water and dry tissue). As a
> monthly gain, that suggests that the body can only gain about 1.75 lbs per
> month with the largest actually observed gain totaling 1.52 lbs/month (or
> 18.25 lbs in one year).
>
> *Jamie Carruthers responded:*
>
> *Unless you are taking drugs or are a novice 1-2 lbs of muscle (dry
> muscle weight) per month is a realistic gain on average.*
>
> 1 to 2 lbs / month dry muscle weight would be somewhere between 5 and 10
> pounds / month total muscle weight, if dry weight comprises 20% of total
> muscle weight.
>
> *From **Consolazio GF, et al.* Protein metabolism during intensive physical
> training in the young adult. Am J Clin Nutr 1975; 28:29-35 (
> http://www.bodybuilding.com/ )fun/maki1. htm
>
> *Another study conducted at the Letterman Army Institute of Research in San
> Francisco showed that subjects on a higher protein intake (2.8 g/kg/day),
> coupled with intense strength training, gained a whopping 3.28 kg (7.2 lbs)
> of lean mass. The study was done over a 40-day period and the subjects were
> trained to near exhaustion (2).*
>
> If it makes sense to assume that the increase of 7.2 lbs of "lean mass" is
> essentially an increase in "lean *muscle* mass" (vs. bone and other), then
> we see an increase of (7.2/40 = .18 lbs/day or 5.4 lbs per month).
>
> *From Dragan GI, Vasiliu A, Georgescu E. *Effects of increased supply of
> protein on elite weightlifters. In: Galesloot TE, Tinbergen BJ, eds. Milk
> Proteins. Pudoc, Wageningen, The Netherlands 1985:99-103 (
> http://www.bodybuilding.com/ )fun/maki1. htm
>
> *Another study of weightlifters over a 3 month period, with the protein
> increased from 2.2g/kg/day to 3.5 g/kg/ day, resulted in a 6% increase in
> muscle mass and a 5% increase in strength (3).*
>
> Using a 200 lb male with 15% body fat as an example, about 170 lbs is lean
> body mass and about 50% of that is muscle mass (85 lbs). (
> http://www.johnberardi.com/articles )/supplementation /prosuper. htm
>
> A 6% increase (.06*85) would be an increase of 5.1 lbs over a 3 month
> period, or 1.7 lbs per month. Using the same proportions to approximate,
> for a 150 lb male, it would be 3.8 lbs over 3 months, or 1.28 lbs per month.
> Say, somewhere around 1.5 lbs per month on average.
>
>
> *So, on a per month basis, we see the following estimates of gain in total
> lean muscle mass (including water and dry tissue):*
>
> From the Colgan Institute: 1.52 to 1.75 lbs / month.
>
> From Dragan GI, Vasiliu A, Georgescu E.: in the general vicinity of 1.5 lbs
> / month
>
> Extrapolating from Jaime Carruthers: 5 to 10 lbs / month, if dry weight
> comprises 20% of total muscle weight.
>
> From Consolazio GF, et al.: 5.4 lbs / month
>
> I realize that amount and type of exercise, study participants' level of
> athletic development, nutritional program, rest, etc., etc., all could have
> a lot to do with hypertrophy. Clearly, nothing here suggests that the
> muscle mag claims (e.g., "Gain 20-30 pounds of lean muscle mass in six
> weeks!!!") are anything like realistic. But if anyone sees any glaring
> errors in my representation of the data, or if anyone has anything to add, I
> would welcome your comments.
>
> Anthony Pitruzzello, Ph.D.
> Chicago, IL
>
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