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Digest #4616
Message
Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:18 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"deadliftdiva@comcast.net"
Ah yes, the problem of "who gets the titles".
Since the start of the most recent USADA action, I've wondered who gets the titles. Not "whether they have LA this time". Nope. USADA had everything to lose if they didn't "prove" this one this time. LA being the "kingpin" isn't a shocker either when you consider the way this has all gone.
I've always thought his story didn't ring true - too many miracles, too many obvious reasons to cheat...sigh. As someone pointed out some time ago, cycling hasn't exactly had a great reputation, it appears it's one of the sports where "everybody cheats". That LA would be doing the same isn't a shock, when you consider how good the competition is - then see he "exceeds" their climb ratio by more than you would ever "believe" by training etc. Even people who wanted to believe found belief stretched in a sport where a 1 percent advantage is huge - and he was putting up a 5 percent difference against admittedly "enhanced" competitors.... "he's a great athlete" didn't cover this, even though I'll be the first to say yes, he's a great athlete...
Everyone who could flip on LA did. desperately trying to get the media focus OFF themselves to try to save sponsorships and careers.... But he also didn't help his own case by hiring docs with reputations for being the "best" at blood doping and other obvious red flags, when added to people who can deflect the bad press from themselves to the lightning rod that is now LA.
I wonder what use a used and abused Tour title is worth to any "runner up" who hasn't already been disgraced. What's the freshness dating on a Tour title - LA"s weren't this year's titles and say they give someone an early 2000's title, what good is it to that person now? It's not like an Olympic gold that can be paraded around after the fact - and even arguably loses some luster if awarded long after the fact (like Marion Jones' stripped medals, given to someone else?) and how does it feel to get that medal or title so long ago "lost" when you can't really get what the original owner got - the endorsements, the fame, all the things people do this for in the first place? And how ridiculous is it to then possibly strip the next "winner" of the outdated titles if they pop or have their PED cover blown....the odds being so high in cycling for one that the new "winner" will be yet another suspect in the long line of PED testing failures?
I still think the time has come to end the pretense that people in pro cycling should be asked to meet a drug testing standard.
There's a few other "miracle" folks out there that I don't believe have done what they did without PEDs and other things not allowed in their sports, but some are also going to get away with things because their sport cannot or will not go after them, the exposure would destroy the sport possibly in a public fashion or make it too difficult to get funding etc. I'm not saying there is anything out there on this guy - but if someone like Michael Phelps (as an EXAMPLE) were to be exposed as more than an indiscreet pot smoker, the implications to the O Games and other destruction of funding and sponsor money in swimming would be far reaching...
Last question I had was "what does USADA really gain". They destroy LA. Ok fine. Then people ask "what took you so long, if he was that bad for that long a time". With the parade of busts in cycling, it sure looks like "everyone's doing it" and who is left? Are they getting through to kids to not use? Not from anything I've seen. With weak steroidal type supplements readily available over the counter and an attitude of 'anything to win', I think things have been getting worse with girls using and other discouraging signs.
The continuing "youth treatments" that blase gels with androgen across the airwaves aren't helping, if anything they are trying to "normalize" the use of steroidal compounds and suggest everybody NEEDS them....parental use may lead to more availability for younger athletes who otherwise would have to find a way to get ahold of something to experiment. The evidence of prescription drug abuse by kids taking their parents' pain relievers for kicks makes me wonder if we'll see some of those androgen prescriptions as an easier path to cheating by kids?
Isn't it odd USADA has gone the extra mile to get LA when the pharmaceutical companies are laboring to make it "normal" for everybody to enhance themselves with their "youth potions"?
Bottom line IMHO, USADA is 10 years TOO LATE.
the Phantom
aka Linda Schaefer Hanley, CMT/RMT, competing powerlifter
Denver, Colorado, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Giarnella" <ragiarn@yahoo.com >
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 4:29:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] The Race that Shocked the World
Just came across this article re: Lance Armstrong and doping. It may be relevant to this present discussion.
http://ideas.time.com/2012/10/12/lance-armstrong-had-little-choice-but-to-dope/
One of my patients, who is now a football coach, told me recently, that when he was playing high school football, 20 years ago, there was extensive use of PEDs in some local high school football programs.
I certainly don't condone or excuse the use of PEDs in sports, but are we naive enough to think that, especially at the highest level of sports, some form of PEDs are being used to gain that little edge necessary to keep an individual near the top?
The problem in cycling is that if they strip LA of his TDF titles who are they going to give them to? Most of the runner ups have already been implicated or proven to have used PEDS.
Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA
--- On Thu, 10/11/12, CoachJ1@aol.com < CoachJ1@aol.com > wrote:
> From: CoachJ1@aol.com < CoachJ1@aol.com >
> Subject: [Supertraining] The Race that Shocked the World
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, October 11, 2012, 12:24 PM
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> The Race that Shocked the World appeared on the BBC
> awhile back. ESPN's
>
> 30 for 30 recently broadcast 9.79.
>
>
>
> As Shane McNeil noted:
>
>
>
> "The race in Seoul is seeing a renaissance of sorts
> thanks to 9.79*. The
>
> film takes a look at the Final 24 years later in the
> context of information
>
> released since that changes the narrative that was once
> perceived as a
>
> cheating Johnson blowing away a clean field."
>
> As ESPN's Mike Fish noted in talking about one of the
> key figures in the
>
> scandal, legendary Coach Charlie Francis:
>
> "Francis didn't run from the truth, though. Unlike
> recent developments that
>
> have seen some prominent U.S. athletes and coaches facing
> perjury charges
>
> after being questioned by federal investigators and even by
> Congress, he
>
> didn't deny his connection to steroids.
>
> When Canadian authorities impaneled the Dubin Inquiry to
> investigate the
>
> doping scandal after Seoul, Francis was the first witness
> called, testifying
>
> for eight days. He acknowledged responsibility for
> introducing Johnson to
>
> performance-enhancing drugs. He helped set the tone for the
> hearings when he
>
> testified to the widespread use of drugs. As the late
> Charles Dubin wrote
>
> of Francis in his 638-page report: "He believed that
> the majority of world
>
> records broken in sprint events in recent years were
> achieved by athletes
>
> who were on steroids and that the dramatic improvement of
> their performance
>
> could only be explained in that way. In his opinion, in
> order to compete
>
> successfully against those athletes at the very top level,
> an athlete had to
>
> take steroids."
>
> Ken Jakalski
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>
> Lisle,Illinois
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> USA
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Since the start of the most recent USADA action, I've wondered who gets the titles. Not "whether they have LA this time". Nope. USADA had everything to lose if they didn't "prove" this one this time. LA being the "kingpin" isn't a shocker either when you consider the way this has all gone.
I've always thought his story didn't ring true - too many miracles, too many obvious reasons to cheat...sigh. As someone pointed out some time ago, cycling hasn't exactly had a great reputation, it appears it's one of the sports where "everybody cheats". That LA would be doing the same isn't a shock, when you consider how good the competition is - then see he "exceeds" their climb ratio by more than you would ever "believe" by training etc. Even people who wanted to believe found belief stretched in a sport where a 1 percent advantage is huge - and he was putting up a 5 percent difference against admittedly "enhanced" competitors.
Everyone who could flip on LA did. desperately trying to get the media focus OFF themselves to try to save sponsorships and careers.... But he also didn't help his own case by hiring docs with reputations for being the "best" at blood doping and other obvious red flags, when added to people who can deflect the bad press from themselves to the lightning rod that is now LA.
I wonder what use a used and abused Tour title is worth to any "runner up" who hasn't already been disgraced. What's the freshness dating on a Tour title - LA"s weren't this year's titles and say they give someone an early 2000's title, what good is it to that person now? It's not like an Olympic gold that can be paraded around after the fact - and even arguably loses some luster if awarded long after the fact (like Marion Jones' stripped medals, given to someone else?) and how does it feel to get that medal or title so long ago "lost" when you can't really get what the original owner got - the endorsements, the fame, all the things people do this for in the first place? And how ridiculous is it to then possibly strip the next "winner" of the outdated titles if they pop or have their PED cover blown....the odds being so high in cycling for one that the new "winner" will be yet another suspect in the long line of PED testing failures?
I still think the time has come to end the pretense that people in pro cycling should be asked to meet a drug testing standard.
There's a few other "miracle" folks out there that I don't believe have done what they did without PEDs and other things not allowed in their sports, but some are also going to get away with things because their sport cannot or will not go after them, the exposure would destroy the sport possibly in a public fashion or make it too difficult to get funding etc. I'm not saying there is anything out there on this guy - but if someone like Michael Phelps (as an EXAMPLE) were to be exposed as more than an indiscreet pot smoker, the implications to the O Games and other destruction of funding and sponsor money in swimming would be far reaching...
Last question I had was "what does USADA really gain". They destroy LA. Ok fine. Then people ask "what took you so long, if he was that bad for that long a time". With the parade of busts in cycling, it sure looks like "everyone's doing it" and who is left? Are they getting through to kids to not use? Not from anything I've seen. With weak steroidal type supplements readily available over the counter and an attitude of 'anything to win', I think things have been getting worse with girls using and other discouraging signs.
The continuing "youth treatments" that blase gels with androgen across the airwaves aren't helping, if anything they are trying to "normalize" the use of steroidal compounds and suggest everybody NEEDS them....parental use may lead to more availability for younger athletes who otherwise would have to find a way to get ahold of something to experiment. The evidence of prescription drug abuse by kids taking their parents' pain relievers for kicks makes me wonder if we'll see some of those androgen prescriptions as an easier path to cheating by kids?
Isn't it odd USADA has gone the extra mile to get LA when the pharmaceutical companies are laboring to make it "normal" for everybody to enhance themselves with their "youth potions"?
Bottom line IMHO, USADA is 10 years TOO LATE.
the Phantom
aka Linda Schaefer Hanley, CMT/RMT, competing powerlifter
Denver, Colorado, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Giarnella" <ragiarn@yahoo.
To: Supertraining@
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 4:29:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] The Race that Shocked the World
Just came across this article re: Lance Armstrong and doping. It may be relevant to this present discussion.
http://ideas.
One of my patients, who is now a football coach, told me recently, that when he was playing high school football, 20 years ago, there was extensive use of PEDs in some local high school football programs.
I certainly don't condone or excuse the use of PEDs in sports, but are we naive enough to think that, especially at the highest level of sports, some form of PEDs are being used to gain that little edge necessary to keep an individual near the top?
The problem in cycling is that if they strip LA of his TDF titles who are they going to give them to? Most of the runner ups have already been implicated or proven to have used PEDS.
Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA
--- On Thu, 10/11/12, CoachJ1@aol.
> From: CoachJ1@aol.
> Subject: [Supertraining] The Race that Shocked the World
> To: Supertraining@
> Date: Thursday, October 11, 2012, 12:24 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The Race that Shocked the World appeared on the BBC
> awhile back. ESPN's
>
> 30 for 30 recently broadcast 9.79.
>
>
>
> As Shane McNeil noted:
>
>
>
> "The race in Seoul is seeing a renaissance of sorts
> thanks to 9.79*. The
>
> film takes a look at the Final 24 years later in the
> context of information
>
> released since that changes the narrative that was once
> perceived as a
>
> cheating Johnson blowing away a clean field."
>
> As ESPN's Mike Fish noted in talking about one of the
> key figures in the
>
> scandal, legendary Coach Charlie Francis:
>
> "Francis didn't run from the truth, though. Unlike
> recent developments that
>
> have seen some prominent U.S. athletes and coaches facing
> perjury charges
>
> after being questioned by federal investigators and even by
> Congress, he
>
> didn't deny his connection to steroids.
>
> When Canadian authorities impaneled the Dubin Inquiry to
> investigate the
>
> doping scandal after Seoul, Francis was the first witness
> called, testifying
>
> for eight days. He acknowledged responsibility for
> introducing Johnson to
>
> performance-
> hearings when he
>
> testified to the widespread use of drugs. As the late
> Charles Dubin wrote
>
> of Francis in his 638-page report: "He believed that
> the majority of world
>
> records broken in sprint events in recent years were
> achieved by athletes
>
> who were on steroids and that the dramatic improvement of
> their performance
>
> could only be explained in that way. In his opinion, in
> order to compete
>
> successfully against those athletes at the very top level,
> an athlete had to
>
> take steroids."
>
> Ken Jakalski
>
>
>
>
>
> Lisle,Illinois
>
>
>
>
>
> USA
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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