Messages In This Digest (5 Messages)
- 1.1.
- Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy From: Ralph Giarnella
- 1.2.
- Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy From: Giovanni Ciriani
- 1.3.
- Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy From: efreem3407@aol.com
- 1.4.
- Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy From: Perez, Miguel
Messages
- 1.1.
-
Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
Posted by: "Ralph Giarnella" ragiarn@yahoo.com ragiarn
Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:13 am (PDT)
newton, abbr. N, unit of force in the mks system of units, which is based on the metric system;
it is the force that produces an acceleration of 1 meter per second per second when exerted on a mass of 1 kilogram. The newton is named for Sir Isaac Newton.
Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA
_____________________ _________ __
From: David Salisbury <jetskers@yahoo.com >
To: "Supertraining@yahoogroups. " <Supertraining@com yahoogroups. >com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 1:33 PM
Subject: [Supertraining] Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
Hmmm... Newtons is a measure of force, but I'm not so sure it's a way
of measuring strength, as it doesn't take into account the amount of time.
I can be as strong as a horse for the first 1/4 second, but the rate of
acceleration on the object will quickly degrade, but other, "stronger"
people can keep it accelerating longer. Newtons.. but for how long?
Dave Salisbury, Boulder, CO
Posted by: "Giovanni Ciriani" Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com gciriani
Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:35 pm (PDT)
I don't think it's a good idea to come up with a new definition of strength
just for Supertraining. Usually strength is measured in terms of force,
i.e. either Newtons (N), Kilogram weight (Kg) of Pound weight (Lb).
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- 1.2.
-
Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
Posted by: "Giovanni Ciriani" Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com gciriani
Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:13 am (PDT)
You are right, Obviously one has to define the context and the rules under
which you measure the force, and that would clarify what we are talking
about. That's why we normally compare an athletic performance with a like
athletic performance with the same rules.
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:33 PM, David Salisbury <jetskers@yahoo.com > wrote:
> **
>
>
>
>
> Hmmm... Newtons is a measure of force, but I'm not so sure it's a way
> of measuring strength, as it doesn't take into account the amount of time.
> I can be as strong as a horse for the first 1/4 second, but the rate of
> acceleration on the object will quickly degrade, but other, "stronger"
> people can keep it accelerating longer. Newtons.. but for how long?
>
> Dave Salisbury, Boulder, CO
>
>
> Posted by: "Giovanni Ciriani" Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com gciriani
> Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:35 pm (PDT)
>
> I don't think it's a good idea to come up with a new definition of strength
> just for Supertraining. Usually strength is measured in terms of force,
> i.e. either Newtons (N), Kilogram weight (Kg) of Pound weight (Lb).
> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- 1.3.
-
Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
Posted by: "efreem3407@aol.com" efreem3407@aol.com powerlifter4231
Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:15 am (PDT)
Well one bodybuilder at the gym I was training at was about 275 lbs. huge and ripped. He only did machine training. He never used more than 100 lbs. on any exercise whether it was the cable bench press, cable shoulder press, pulldown, seated row, leg press, machine squat, leg curl, or any other machine. I observed him doing about 100 reps per set on each machine. Then after his weight training he would always do 30 minutes of cardiovascular training. Now he was big and ripped but lifted only light weights with high reps.
If I were to do that I would be a skinny refugee from camp.
I think it was the steroids that were causing him to be huge and ripped with low weight/high rep workouts.
Edwin Freeman, Jr.
San Francisco, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: efreem3407 <efreem3407@aol.com >
To: Supertraining <Supertraining@yahoogroups. >com
Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 5:18 am
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
Correct me if I am wrong but I think lean muscle gains correspond to strength
increases. Any bodybuilder that gains lean muscle should have strength
increases? Then again, this could be suspect, because I've seen bodybuilders
using steroids that do only high rep and low weight workouts yet have massive
amounts of muscle. I've seen bodybuilders do hundreds of reps on machines with
say 100 lbs. yet still be huge and massive.
I train as a powerlifter. I'm not training to gain a lot of bulk. I am mostly
training for strength without massive amounts of body weight and bulk increases.
Edwin Freeman, Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: deadliftdiva <deadliftdiva@comcast.net >
To: Supertraining <Supertraining@yahoogroups. >com
Sent: Thu, Jun 14, 2012 9:31 am
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
I'm going to jump in here with one point that I think has bearing on the whole
question: When we measure lean mass, we are not precise. We cannot be. What we
get is some guess based on measurements which varies and can be misleading - and
I recall Mel's comment long ago that the only truly accurate measure was
"autopsy". Few would desire to have their lean mass evaluated this way during a
growth phase in training, so that's clearly out :) .
With the known variance in measuring methods (and here I recall James Krieger's
good article on measuring that he thoughtfully shared some time ago with this
group), my thinking is that there is a considerable margin of guessing that
makes it possible to overestimate how much lean mass has been gained by an
individual over time. I myself over the years have experienced wildly ranging
measurements by folks who were said to be expert in such things - considering
that the measurement of one's bodyfat subcutaneously or measurements to estimate
a guess at overall bodyfat including a visceral estimate would have bearing on a
presumed gain in lean mass by way of deducting the presumed bodyfat on board...
I also once handed Mel a copy of a book that suggested you could 'squat for 6
weeks and gain 20 pounds of lean hard muscle' and the response was that it was
entertaining but unlikely to be accurate... Thankfully sq never had that effect
on me personally or I'd have required more new wardrobes than I have been
through personally over the years here as a competing powerlifter!
So if we consider that measuring the bodyfat an individual has on board is still
somewhat less effective than we would like, how then can we be sure of lean
gains that would be based on our best guess of the fat to lean ratio of a
person? Would not a "lean muscle gain" not be entirely muscle also, but the
bones themselves responding to the increased loads as well?
Interesting topic, back to reading. :)
The Phantom
aka Linda Schaefer, CMT/RMT, competing powerlifter
Denver, Colorado, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "kendaiganoneill" <kayoneill@earthlink.net >
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:54:05 PM
Subject: [Supertraining] Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
Krista's reports of 25-44 lbs of muscle gain within a year for life long
ectomorphs.
I will dissent, however, on the notion that 20-30 lbs of muscle gain in as
little as three months are hype. Back from the 1930s into the early 60s many a
trainee reported 20 or more pounds increase in manly muscle over a three month
period by means of specializing in 5 sets of 20 reps of breathing squats, some
adding the Hise shrug. Thrice weekly, consuming nutrient dense whole foods and
the sole protein supplement of that bygone era: milk.
Breathing squats are especially demanding, certainly no fun save for Masochists.
With each set, one breath between reps 1-5, then 2 deep breaths for reps 6-10,
three deep breaths for reps 11-15, and - you guessed it - four deep breaths
between reps 16-20. The immediately onto a picnic bench for sets of 20 reps,
very light weight dumbbell flyes to expand the rib cage for a big chest.
These days I'll defer to the exciting new work coming out of McMaster University
comparing 1 set of 8-10 1 RM to failure vs 3 sets of 8-10 to failure 80% 1 RM vs
3 sets of 30 reps to failure with 30% 1 RM. Adding volume at 80% and 30%
produced essentially equal hypertrophy, both significantly greater than 1 set to
failure (a failed idea).
In my personal experience and that of training others, hitting significant
annual hypertrophy is far more easily facilitated when rep schemes, cadence or
tempo, stage sets, drop sets, using 30-80% 1 RM are all intelligently and
strategically applied to one end: avoiding plateaus, instead sustainable
anabolism.
--- In Supertraining@yahoogroups. , Krista Scott-Dixon <kristascottdixon@com ...>
wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Anthony Pitruzzello
> <tonypit45@...> wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I recently posted a question about rate of hypertrophy – basically, what are
> > the optimal realistic results a person can expect, vs. the endless claims in
> > the muscle mags, e.g., "Gain 20-30 pounds of lean muscle mass in six
> > weeks!!!" I compared the responses with some other data, and I thought I
> > would share it with the group.
> >
>
> I work with John Berardi at Precision Nutrition, which runs a
> muscle-gaining Scrawny to Brawny program. It's a one-year program that
> focuses on step-by-step habit acquisition and entrainment, like our
> other fat-loss program Lean Eating. We run a contest that awards money
> to top finishers -- people who dramatically transform their bodies.
>
> Looking at our recent 12-month cohorts, our top finalists put on
> between 25-44 lbs in a year. These are ectomorphs who are "lifetime
> scrawnies", so they gain mass relatively slowly -- some made notable
> transformations even with relatively less muscle gain, because small
> amounts of mass make a big difference on a shorter/skinnier frame.
> This is with a highly structured eating and training program, a coach,
> and daily check-ins (lessons and habits). All material is
> science/research-based as you might expect from JB and PN.
>
> Interestingly, our 6-month program was not as dissimilar as you would
> expect -- it doesn't seem to be a linear scale.
>
> Here are finalists from our early, 6-month program:
> http://www.precisionnutrition. com/s2b-winners- 2010
>
> Here are finalists from our 12-month program that begin in May 2011.
> http://www.scrawnytobrawny.com/ may-2011- finalists
>
> Krista
> Toronto, ON
>
> --------------------
> Krista Scott-Dixon, PhD
> Lean Eating Program Director
> PrecisionNutrition.com
> krista@...
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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- 1.4.
-
Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
Posted by: "Perez, Miguel" miguel.perez@crbard.com metalhead2_mx
Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:16 pm (PDT)
Ed,
My guess is that the guy's probably training for a contest, or for the beach. Not likely he trains like that all the time.
Miguel Pérez
Reynosa, Mexico
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups. [mailto:Supertraining@com yahoogroups. ] On Behalf Of efreem3407@aol.com com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:16 AM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
Well one bodybuilder at the gym I was training at was about 275 lbs. huge and ripped. He only did machine training. He never used more than 100 lbs. on any exercise whether it was the cable bench press, cable shoulder press, pulldown, seated row, leg press, machine squat, leg curl, or any other machine. I observed him doing about 100 reps per set on each machine. Then after his weight training he would always do 30 minutes of cardiovascular training. Now he was big and ripped but lifted only light weights with high reps.
If I were to do that I would be a skinny refugee from camp.
I think it was the steroids that were causing him to be huge and ripped with low weight/high rep workouts.
Edwin Freeman, Jr.
San Francisco, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: efreem3407 <efreem3407@aol.com <mailto:efreem3407%40aol.com> >
To: Supertraining <Supertraining@yahoogroups. <mailto:Supertrainicom ng%40yahoogroups .com>>
Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 5:18 am
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
Correct me if I am wrong but I think lean muscle gains correspond to strength
increases. Any bodybuilder that gains lean muscle should have strength
increases? Then again, this could be suspect, because I've seen bodybuilders
using steroids that do only high rep and low weight workouts yet have massive
amounts of muscle. I've seen bodybuilders do hundreds of reps on machines with
say 100 lbs. yet still be huge and massive.
I train as a powerlifter. I'm not training to gain a lot of bulk. I am mostly
training for strength without massive amounts of body weight and bulk increases.
Edwin Freeman, Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: deadliftdiva <deadliftdiva@comcast.net <mailto:deadliftdiva%40comcast. net>>
To: Supertraining <Supertraining@yahoogroups. <mailto:Supertrainicom ng%40yahoogroups .com>>
Sent: Thu, Jun 14, 2012 9:31 am
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
I'm going to jump in here with one point that I think has bearing on the whole
question: When we measure lean mass, we are not precise. We cannot be. What we
get is some guess based on measurements which varies and can be misleading - and
I recall Mel's comment long ago that the only truly accurate measure was
"autopsy". Few would desire to have their lean mass evaluated this way during a
growth phase in training, so that's clearly out :) .
With the known variance in measuring methods (and here I recall James Krieger's
good article on measuring that he thoughtfully shared some time ago with this
group), my thinking is that there is a considerable margin of guessing that
makes it possible to overestimate how much lean mass has been gained by an
individual over time. I myself over the years have experienced wildly ranging
measurements by folks who were said to be expert in such things - considering
that the measurement of one's bodyfat subcutaneously or measurements to estimate
a guess at overall bodyfat including a visceral estimate would have bearing on a
presumed gain in lean mass by way of deducting the presumed bodyfat on board...
I also once handed Mel a copy of a book that suggested you could 'squat for 6
weeks and gain 20 pounds of lean hard muscle' and the response was that it was
entertaining but unlikely to be accurate... Thankfully sq never had that effect
on me personally or I'd have required more new wardrobes than I have been
through personally over the years here as a competing powerlifter!
So if we consider that measuring the bodyfat an individual has on board is still
somewhat less effective than we would like, how then can we be sure of lean
gains that would be based on our best guess of the fat to lean ratio of a
person? Would not a "lean muscle gain" not be entirely muscle also, but the
bones themselves responding to the increased loads as well?
Interesting topic, back to reading. :)
The Phantom
aka Linda Schaefer, CMT/RMT, competing powerlifter
Denver, Colorado, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "kendaiganoneill" <kayoneill@earthlink.net <mailto:kayoneill%40earthlink. net>>
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups. <mailto:Supertrainicom ng%40yahoogroups .com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:54:05 PM
Subject: [Supertraining] Re: More About Rate of Hypertrophy
Krista's reports of 25-44 lbs of muscle gain within a year for life long
ectomorphs.
I will dissent, however, on the notion that 20-30 lbs of muscle gain in as
little as three months are hype. Back from the 1930s into the early 60s many a
trainee reported 20 or more pounds increase in manly muscle over a three month
period by means of specializing in 5 sets of 20 reps of breathing squats, some
adding the Hise shrug. Thrice weekly, consuming nutrient dense whole foods and
the sole protein supplement of that bygone era: milk.
Breathing squats are especially demanding, certainly no fun save for Masochists.
With each set, one breath between reps 1-5, then 2 deep breaths for reps 6-10,
three deep breaths for reps 11-15, and - you guessed it - four deep breaths
between reps 16-20. The immediately onto a picnic bench for sets of 20 reps,
very light weight dumbbell flyes to expand the rib cage for a big chest.
These days I'll defer to the exciting new work coming out of McMaster University
comparing 1 set of 8-10 1 RM to failure vs 3 sets of 8-10 to failure 80% 1 RM vs
3 sets of 30 reps to failure with 30% 1 RM. Adding volume at 80% and 30%
produced essentially equal hypertrophy, both significantly greater than 1 set to
failure (a failed idea).
In my personal experience and that of training others, hitting significant
annual hypertrophy is far more easily facilitated when rep schemes, cadence or
tempo, stage sets, drop sets, using 30-80% 1 RM are all intelligently and
strategically applied to one end: avoiding plateaus, instead sustainable
anabolism.
--- In Supertraining@yahoogroups. <mailto:Supertrainicom ng%40yahoogroups .com> , Krista Scott-Dixon <kristascottdixon@ ...>
wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Anthony Pitruzzello
> <tonypit45@...> wrote:
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I recently posted a question about rate of hypertrophy – basically, what are
> > the optimal realistic results a person can expect, vs. the endless claims in
> > the muscle mags, e.g., "Gain 20-30 pounds of lean muscle mass in six
> > weeks!!!" I compared the responses with some other data, and I thought I
> > would share it with the group.
> >
>
> I work with John Berardi at Precision Nutrition, which runs a
> muscle-gaining Scrawny to Brawny program. It's a one-year program that
> focuses on step-by-step habit acquisition and entrainment, like our
> other fat-loss program Lean Eating. We run a contest that awards money
> to top finishers -- people who dramatically transform their bodies.
>
> Looking at our recent 12-month cohorts, our top finalists put on
> between 25-44 lbs in a year. These are ectomorphs who are "lifetime
> scrawnies", so they gain mass relatively slowly -- some made notable
> transformations even with relatively less muscle gain, because small
> amounts of mass make a big difference on a shorter/skinnier frame.
> This is with a highly structured eating and training program, a coach,
> and daily check-ins (lessons and habits). All material is
> science/research-based as you might expect from JB and PN.
>
> Interestingly, our 6-month program was not as dissimilar as you would
> expect -- it doesn't seem to be a linear scale.
>
> Here are finalists from our early, 6-month program:
> http://www.precisionnutrition. com/s2b-winners- 2010
>
> Here are finalists from our 12-month program that begin in May 2011.
> http://www.scrawnytobrawny.com/ may-2011- finalists
>
> Krista
> Toronto, ON
>
> --------------------
> Krista Scott-Dixon, PhD
> Lean Eating Program Director
> PrecisionNutrition.com
> krista@...
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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- 2.
-
Announcement for Special Issue on Swimming, J Sport Sci & Me
Posted by: "hakan" hakan@uludag.edu.tr hakangur2001
Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:13 am (PDT)
SPECIAL ISSUE ON SWIMMING
In a major attempt to emphasize the importance of research and
evidence-based practical information in advancing all aspects of
swimming performance, the Journal of Sports Science and Medicine will
publish a Special Issue on Swimming in end 2013. Swimming is one of the
world's most popular sports enjoyed by millions of people of all ages
and abilities. Nowadays there is also a great interest in other types of
aquatic activities, including fin swimming, head-out aquatic exercises,
synchronized swimming, water polo, diving, open water, hydrotherapy,
infant swim, etc. In order to help athletes, educators, students and
coaches, practitioners seek assistance from the vast amount of technical
coaching information that is available in the market in the form of
books, journals or websites. This special issue of the Journal of Sports
Science and Medicine calls on authors to submit original research and
specific reviews that enriches the current understanding of swimming and
remain aquatic activities. The scope of the issue will include the
following topics:
1) The new finding relating to hydrodynamics such as CFD (computational
fluid dynamics) and PIV (particle image velocimetry).
2) Biomechanics of swimming (kinematics, EMG, etc) & new testing device
3) Mechanical and physiological components of fatigue
4) Hypoxic training
5) Interval training, training load & training modelling
6) Dry-land vs. aquatic training
7) Expertise in swimming, start and turn
8) Inter-individual variability in performance analysis and modelling
9) Energetic intensities (MLSS, VO2max, critical velocity, etc),
training & performance
10) New findings in aquatic activities such as open water, water polo
synchronized swimming, etc
Author Guidelines and Submission Deadline:
Instructions for authors and submission guidelines can be found at the
Journal's homepage: http://www.jssm.org/submission. php
Deadline for full paper submission is 2nd December, 2012.
All papers will be subjected to the peer-review procedures of the
Journal.
Papers should be submitted online at
http://www.jssm.org/submission. php.
Mark that the manuscript is for a special issue and enter 'Swimming
Issue' as the issue title.
Please email all special issue-related enquiries to the Swimming
Section Editor:
Dr. Ludovic Seifert, PhD, Associate Professor
University of Rouen, Faculty of Sport Sciences
CETAPS Lab., Boulevard Siegfried
76821 Mont Saint Aignan Cedex, FRANCE
Tel: (+33) 232107784, Mobile: (+33) 682077021,
E-mail: ludovic.seifert@univ-rouen. fr
Dr. Ludovic Seifert will be assisted in editorial duties by:
Dr. Tiago M. Barbosa, PhD
Polytechnic Institute of Bragança Dept. of Sport Sciences Apart.
1101 5301-856 Bragança, PORTUGAL
E-mail: barbosa@ipb.pt
Direct all journal-related enquiries to the Editor-in-Chief:
Hakan Gur, MD, PhD
Department of Sports Medicine
Medical Faculty of Uludag University
16059 Bursa; Turkey
E-mail: hakan@uludag.edu.tr or hakangur2001@gmail.com
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