Messages In This Digest (6 Messages)

1a.: Re: 1 Rep Max From: Giovanni Ciriani
1b.: Re: 1 Rep Max From: Mark Helme
1c.: Re: 1 Rep Max From: Keith Hobman
1d.: Re: 1 Rep Max From: samuel9888
1e.: Re: 1 Rep Max From: John Casler

2a.: Re: Acid in gut From: Ralph Giarnella

Messages

1a.: Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Giovanni Ciriani" Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com gciriani

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:44 am (PDT)

You didn't look at the graph carefully. One curve has Force on the left
axis and velocity on the horizontal axis. The other curve has power on the
right axis and velocity on the horizontal axis.
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Keith Hobman <keith.hobman@usask.ca> wrote:

> **
>
>
> The graph depicts a muscle force relationship. Power and force are
> different than force and velocity.
>
> A 1RM tests neither. Within defined movements it is a measure of how much
> you can lift - absolute strength in a way, since time isn't generally taken
> into account. I realize this is simplistic, especially in the case of the
> olympic lifts where tremendous amounts of force and considerable speed is
> required. None the less, the rules of the snatch and the c&j are not 'time'
> dependent. Within the time allocated to the lifter on the platform you
> could perform a snatch superslow if you wanted and if you met the rules it
> would still be a good lift.
>
> Ditto for powerlifts. A deadlift takes a lot of force, but I've seen some
> lifts that are tremendously explosive (THE PHANTOM!!!) and some people
> crank it down a gear or two and take forever to get to lockout.
>
> Keith Hobman
> Saskatoon, Canada
>
>
> On 4/16/12 10:57 AM, Giovanni Ciriani wrote:
> > John,
> > Maximum power, according to the articles I have read, takes place at
> about
> > 1/3 of maximum force. See also the graph
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Muscle_Force_Velocity_relationship.png
> > Therefore what your are saying implies that 1RM is at about 1/3 of
> maximum
> > force. Is that what you mean?
> > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:54 AM, John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > > **
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Regarding the SPEED of a 1RM;
> > >
> > > A 1RM will always be performed at the maximum safe speed, or else it
> will
> > > not represent a 1RM.
> > >
> > > Any effort attempted to use a "timed" or speed controlled rep will
> detract
> > > from maximal effort, and will not yield a 1RM.
> > >
> > > A 1RM is representative of the maximum load, resistance, or weight
> that one
> > > can use for a single rep of an action. If we employ a speed controlled
> > > (TUL) component, the level of ability to use the load will be
> compromised.
> > >
> > > While we will certainly observe that some 1RM's will appear to move
> slowly,
> > > this is relative to the load moved. A heavy load will reduce speed when
> > > increased until their will be an inability to produce motion.
> > >
> > > I might add, that a 1RM will also represent maximum Power Expression
> for a
> > > lift, action, or exercise.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > John Casler
> > > TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> > > Century City, CA
> > >
> > > -||||--------||||-
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
> > > On Behalf Of samuel9888
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:13 AM
> > > To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
> > >
> > > Hi Giovanni,
> > >
> > > I don't understand the question--the "speed for recording 1RM?"
> > >
> > > The only thing I can think of where speed is relevant to your question
> is
> > > if
> > > you are video-recording the attempt: the speed of the camera. But
> speed has
> > > no relevance to testing for a 1RM: the person can perform the lift or
> > > he/she
> > > can't.
> > >
> > > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > > Bellevue, NE
> > >
> > > --- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com, Giovanni Ciriani
> > > <Giovanni.Ciriani@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Teresa,
> > > > What's the correct speed for recording 1RM?
> > > >
> > > > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM, samuel9888 <Sam68123@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Mark,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure some protocals are in "Essentials of Strength and
> > > Conditioning"
> > > from NSCA (Baechle and Earle) or "Designing Resistance Training
> Programs"
> > > Fleck and Kraemer). I never actually conducted one in a lab setting.
> In a
> > > free-living, practical setting (training non-sthletes), it isn't
> really all
> > > that useful.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Accurate results" is a very elusive concept for this test because
> > > there
> > > are too many variables to control. At best, you can get today's
> one-rep max
> > > on an individual. Also, it's not that necessary, or sometimes even
> > > advisable, to perform a one-rep max test for individuals unless you are
> > > performing a research study where such test results are outcome
> variables.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you Google "1-rep max test protocol", I'm sure you'll run across
> > > some
> > > scholarly references that will point you toward the protocol they used.
> > > > >
> > > > > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > > > > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > > > > Bellevue, NE
> > > > >
> > > > (meterial deleted)
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > Modify/cancel your subscription at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> > >
> > > Sign all letters with full name & city of residence if you wish them
> to be
> > > published!
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (21)
1b.: Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Mark Helme" mark-helme@sky.com mark521668

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:45 am (PDT)

Hi all,

I am not sure why this time/speed element is so much of an issue.

The 1RM test is a test of strength which is the ability to produce maximal
force in a single voluntary action. This in no way is associated with a time
component, if it where it would be a squat jump power test.

The only factors to be assessed in a 1RM test, is do they maintain correct
technique and how much do they lift.

To answer the initial question, I use the ACSM's protocol, which I believe
is similar to the protocol in Baechle & Earle's text.

Mark Helme

Wakefield, UK

From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of John Casler
Sent: 16 April 2012 19:49
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max

Hi Giovanni,

Actually I misspoke (mistyped?) and a 1RM is not representative of the Max
Power Expression, as far as peak power. Sorry for the confusion.

However, I still represent that a 1RM is always performed at the fastest
speed safely possible.

Regards,

John Casler
TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
Century City, CA

-||||--------||||-

-----Original Message-----
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On Behalf Of Giovanni Ciriani
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 9:57 AM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max

John,
Maximum power, according to the articles I have read, takes place at about
1/3 of maximum force. See also the graph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Muscle_Force_Velocity_relationship.png
Therefore what your are saying implies that 1RM is at about 1/3 of maximum
force. Is that what you mean?
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:54 AM, John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net
<mailto:bioforce.inc%40gte.net> > wrote:

> **
>
>
> Regarding the SPEED of a 1RM;
>
> A 1RM will always be performed at the maximum safe speed, or else it
> will not represent a 1RM.
>
> Any effort attempted to use a "timed" or speed controlled rep will
> detract from maximal effort, and will not yield a 1RM.
>
> A 1RM is representative of the maximum load, resistance, or weight
> that one can use for a single rep of an action. If we employ a speed
> controlled
> (TUL) component, the level of ability to use the load will be compromised.
>
> While we will certainly observe that some 1RM's will appear to move
> slowly, this is relative to the load moved. A heavy load will reduce
> speed when increased until their will be an inability to produce motion.
>
> I might add, that a 1RM will also represent maximum Power Expression
> for a lift, action, or exercise.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Casler
> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> Century City, CA
>
> -||||--------||||-
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> On Behalf Of samuel9888
> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:13 AM
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
> Hi Giovanni,
>
> I don't understand the question--the "speed for recording 1RM?"
>
> The only thing I can think of where speed is relevant to your question
> is if you are video-recording the attempt: the speed of the camera.
> But speed has no relevance to testing for a 1RM: the person can
> perform the lift or he/she can't.
>
> Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> Bellevue, NE
>
> --- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com> , Giovanni Ciriani
> <Giovanni.Ciriani@...> wrote:
> >
> > Teresa,
> > What's the correct speed for recording 1RM?
> >
> > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM, samuel9888 <Sam68123@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Mark,
> > >
> > > I'm sure some protocals are in "Essentials of Strength and
> Conditioning"
> from NSCA (Baechle and Earle) or "Designing Resistance Training Programs"
> Fleck and Kraemer). I never actually conducted one in a lab setting.
> In a free-living, practical setting (training non-sthletes), it isn't
> really all that useful.
> > >
> > > "Accurate results" is a very elusive concept for this test because
> there
> are too many variables to control. At best, you can get today's
> one-rep max on an individual. Also, it's not that necessary, or
> sometimes even advisable, to perform a one-rep max test for
> individuals unless you are performing a research study where such test
results are outcome variables.
> > >
> > > If you Google "1-rep max test protocol", I'm sure you'll run
> > > across
> some
> scholarly references that will point you toward the protocol they used.
> > >
> > > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > > Bellevue, NE
> > >
> > (meterial deleted)
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Modify/cancel your subscription at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Sign all letters with full name & city of residence if you wish them
> to be published!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (21)
1c.: Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Keith Hobman" keith.hobman@usask.ca khobman800

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:12 am (PDT)

Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by requirements outside of force and velocity.

Keith Hobman
Saskatoon, Canada

On 4/17/12 10:17 AM, Giovanni Ciriani wrote:
> You didn't look at the graph carefully. One curve has Force on the left
> axis and velocity on the horizontal axis. The other curve has power on the
> right axis and velocity on the horizontal axis.
> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
>
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Keith Hobman <keith.hobman@usask.ca> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > The graph depicts a muscle force relationship. Power and force are
> > different than force and velocity.
> >
> > A 1RM tests neither. Within defined movements it is a measure of how much
> > you can lift - absolute strength in a way, since time isn't generally taken
> > into account. I realize this is simplistic, especially in the case of the
> > olympic lifts where tremendous amounts of force and considerable speed is
> > required. None the less, the rules of the snatch and the c&j are not 'time'
> > dependent. Within the time allocated to the lifter on the platform you
> > could perform a snatch superslow if you wanted and if you met the rules it
> > would still be a good lift.
> >
> > Ditto for powerlifts. A deadlift takes a lot of force, but I've seen some
> > lifts that are tremendously explosive (THE PHANTOM!!!) and some people
> > crank it down a gear or two and take forever to get to lockout.
> >
> > Keith Hobman
> > Saskatoon, Canada
> >
> >
> > On 4/16/12 10:57 AM, Giovanni Ciriani wrote:
> > > John,
> > > Maximum power, according to the articles I have read, takes place at
> > about
> > > 1/3 of maximum force. See also the graph
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Muscle_Force_Velocity_relationship.png
> > > Therefore what your are saying implies that 1RM is at about 1/3 of
> > maximum
> > > force. Is that what you mean?
> > > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:54 AM, John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the SPEED of a 1RM;
> > > >
> > > > A 1RM will always be performed at the maximum safe speed, or else it
> > will
> > > > not represent a 1RM.
> > > >
> > > > Any effort attempted to use a "timed" or speed controlled rep will
> > detract
> > > > from maximal effort, and will not yield a 1RM.
> > > >
> > > > A 1RM is representative of the maximum load, resistance, or weight
> > that one
> > > > can use for a single rep of an action. If we employ a speed controlled
> > > > (TUL) component, the level of ability to use the load will be
> > compromised.
> > > >
> > > > While we will certainly observe that some 1RM's will appear to move
> > slowly,
> > > > this is relative to the load moved. A heavy load will reduce speed when
> > > > increased until their will be an inability to produce motion.
> > > >
> > > > I might add, that a 1RM will also represent maximum Power Expression
> > for a
> > > > lift, action, or exercise.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > John Casler
> > > > TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> > > > Century City, CA
> > > >
> > > > -||||--------||||-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> > Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
> > > > On Behalf Of samuel9888
> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:13 AM
> > > > To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
> > > >
> > > > Hi Giovanni,
> > > >
> > > > I don't understand the question--the "speed for recording 1RM?"
> > > >
> > > > The only thing I can think of where speed is relevant to your question
> > is
> > > > if
> > > > you are video-recording the attempt: the speed of the camera. But
> > speed has
> > > > no relevance to testing for a 1RM: the person can perform the lift or
> > > > he/she
> > > > can't.
> > > >
> > > > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > > > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > > > Bellevue, NE
> > > >
> > > > --- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com, Giovanni Ciriani
> > > > <Giovanni.Ciriani@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Teresa,
> > > > > What's the correct speed for recording 1RM?
> > > > >
> > > > > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM, samuel9888 <Sam68123@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > **
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Mark,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm sure some protocals are in "Essentials of Strength and
> > > > Conditioning"
> > > > from NSCA (Baechle and Earle) or "Designing Resistance Training
> > Programs"
> > > > Fleck and Kraemer). I never actually conducted one in a lab setting.
> > In a
> > > > free-living, practical setting (training non-sthletes), it isn't
> > really all
> > > > that useful.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Accurate results" is a very elusive concept for this test because
> > > > there
> > > > are too many variables to control. At best, you can get today's
> > one-rep max
> > > > on an individual. Also, it's not that necessary, or sometimes even
> > > > advisable, to perform a one-rep max test for individuals unless you are
> > > > performing a research study where such test results are outcome
> > variables.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you Google "1-rep max test protocol", I'm sure you'll run across
> > > > some
> > > > scholarly references that will point you toward the protocol they used.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > > > > > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > > > > > Bellevue, NE
> > > > > >
> > > > > (meterial deleted)
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Modify/cancel your subscription at:
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> > > >
> > > > Sign all letters with full name & city of residence if you wish them
> > to be
> > > > published!
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Messages in this topic (21)
1d.: Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "samuel9888" Sam68123@cox.net samuel9888

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:12 am (PDT)

Hi Giovanni,

Sorry for the delay in response.

Force vs velocity is not relevant to 1RM for any particular exercise. By definition, a 1RM is the maximum weight you can lift for one repetition of the exercise--absolute strength. It is exercise specific.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-repetition_maximum

Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
Bellevue, NE

--- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com, Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@...> wrote:
>
> Teresa,
> Doesn't force change with speed?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_contraction#Force-length_and_force-velocity_relationships
>
> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
>
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 12:13 PM, samuel9888 <Sam68123@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi Giovanni,
> >
> > I don't understand the question--the "speed for recording 1RM?"
> >
> > The only thing I can think of where speed is relevant to your question is if you are video-recording the attempt: the speed of the camera. But speed has no relevance to testing for a 1RM: the person can perform the lift or he/she can't.
> >
> >
> > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > Bellevue, NE
> >
> > --- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com, Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Teresa,
> > > What's the correct speed for recording 1RM?
> > >
> > > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
(material deleted)

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Messages in this topic (21)
1e.: Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "John Casler" bioforce.inc@gte.net bioforce_inc

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:59 am (PDT)

I think often we get confused with what we are looking at. Keith is 100%
correct that in a "TRUE" 1RM effort we will be applying the greatest muscle
and mechanical force we can to that effort and "speed" will be a by-product
of that effort.

The confusion I speak of is when we begin to combine a specific
"competitive" lift and the rule parameters of that lift, which may include a
speed, or a pause, or some other component that will actually be NOT
representative of a TRUE 1RM effort.

So the take home is that the speed component is an observable by-product of
a 1RM (or any RM) but it is NOT the component that defines the effort as a
1RM.

Regards,

John Casler
TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
Century City, CA

-||||--------||||-

-----Original Message-----
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Keith Hobman
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54 AM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max

Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests
neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by requirements
outside of force and velocity.

Keith Hobman
Saskatoon, Canada

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Messages in this topic (21)

2a.: Re: Acid in gut

Posted by: "Ralph Giarnella" ragiarn@yahoo.com ragiarn

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:45 am (PDT)

Post exercise nausea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_induced_nausea

Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA

________________________________
From: James Beckinsale <jamesbeckinsale@hotmail.com>
To: "supertraining@yahoogroups.com" <supertraining@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 8:49 AM
Subject: [Supertraining] Acid in gut

Good afternoon all, I was wondering if anyone has come across athletes (this one is 17) who after high intensity exercise or competition will either feel sick or are sick? It is really effecting a young swimmer I know and is just not very nice for him. Thank you for any help

James Beckinsale M.ScOptima Racing TeamLondon's Premier Triathlon Club
Web: www.optimaracingteam.comTwitter: @OptimaTeam
Mobile: +44 (0)7956 166 989
E-Mail: james@optimatrainingsystems.co.ukTwitter @eggsrinbasket

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FAST INFO MAGAZINE

Thursday, 19 April 2012

[Supertraining] Digest Number 4552

Messages In This Digest (6 Messages)

Messages

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Giovanni Ciriani" Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com gciriani

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:44 am (PDT)

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Mark Helme" mark-helme@sky.com mark521668

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:45 am (PDT)

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Keith Hobman" keith.hobman@usask.ca khobman800

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:12 am (PDT)

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "samuel9888" Sam68123@cox.net samuel9888

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:12 am (PDT)

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "John Casler" bioforce.inc@gte.net bioforce_inc

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:59 am (PDT)

Re: Acid in gut

Posted by: "Ralph Giarnella" ragiarn@yahoo.com ragiarn

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:45 am (PDT)

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