5 New Messages
Digest #4654
Messages
Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:58 pm (PST) . Posted by:
nicktatalias
Hi Everyone
As one of the few South Africans on the board I feel a need to reply.
The facts of the Oscar case are a little unclear. Oscar maintains his innocence but then he would, any normal person would. However there have been few facts presented in the case and this was a bail hearing which determines a persons risk of flight and of interfering with the investigation. Oscar is out on bail. Whether as he claims it was a moment of fear or a premeditated lovers quarel will out. The noise about peds is just noise and few in the press here picked that out so it remains a piece of unconfirmed media noise. The sad thing is some one died and so young and the biggest story is a media fuss about a fallen celebrity. Many only to quick to gleefully jeer a fallen hero
South Africa has a high violent crime rate and home invasions are an issue. We all live behind high walls. I have a 6' wall with electric fence above to secure my property and I have armed security response. My mother in her 70's was attacked and beaten in her home and the criminals have never been caught.
Policing is woeful and some politicians corrupt. But there is a concerted effort to improve and slowly it will. I have worked with members of our church with prisoners to try to help rehabilitate them, to do my part. We have several successful programmes running at prisons and we found that re-offending from people who have completed the programme significantly lower. Crime rate are coming down and moments in SA like the 2010 soccer world cup where we had an almost crime free SA give us all hope. So sport can contribute to society. The story portrayed in the movie Invictus still holds a big place in most South African's hearts.
Miguel in 2011 I visited Mexico I ended up in Monterrey on my way to a mine called Penesquito . That week end I was there 10 people were found beheaded in the streets. Your people were calling for a president that would go soft on drug Lords because that will stop the violence. Please think about what you say before saying it, everywhere there are issues which are complicated and not simplistic, I find your amazement at police ignoring an accident interesting given the troubled situation in Mexico? This not to pick a fight but to raise a point about style in you posts.
Yes South is a country filled with fear and a legless Oscar had every reason to react the way he did but he broke the law by shooting through a door, his life or someone else's life was not in immediate danger, which is what SA law will test, in all likely hood he will technically have committed man slaughter and his defense will be in terms of mitigation of sentence, but I am not a lawyer...
South Africa has its faults and many have left but it is also a beautiful country with hope. A place where years of apartheid oppression gave way to democracy in a miraculous moment in 1994 and a world figure Nelson Mandela took control of the young democracy. Now we fight to retain that hard won battle against a scourge of violence and corruption, and people like Oscar give us all hope here, but people are people and none are perfect. We will see.
Regards
Nick Tatalias
Johannesburg
South Africa
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone
-----Original Message-----
From: "Perez, Miguel" miguel.perez@crbard.com >
Sender: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:23:32
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com Supertraining@yahoogroups.com >
Reply-To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
An acquaintance of mine, a South African gemologist residing in Johannesburg, was involved in two car accidents recently, neither of which was his fault. On the first instance, the police were called but never arrived; on the second instance, the police did send a cruiser but the policemen just drove up to the scene, looked at the wreck, and drove off. Seriously!
Miguel Pérez
Reynosa, Mexico
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of CoachJ1@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:31 PM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
Hi Giovanni!
In a message dated 2/23/2013 10:53:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com writes:
I've heard similar comments from acquaintances who left SA for the same
reason. They said that with the fear of home invasion that permeates the
country, what happened is sad but not surprising.
My "first" copy of Supertraining was ordered from SA. It never arrived.
I remember Mel mentioning that this was not unusual, noting the corruption
in the SA postal service. He ended up sending me a copy he had in Denver.
Ken Jakalski
Lisle HS
Lisle, IL USA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the use of those to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and prohibited from further disclosure under law. If you have received this e-mail in error, its review, use, retention and/or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.[v1.0]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As one of the few South Africans on the board I feel a need to reply.
The facts of the Oscar case are a little unclear. Oscar maintains his innocence but then he would, any normal person would. However there have been few facts presented in the case and this was a bail hearing which determines a persons risk of flight and of interfering with the investigation. Oscar is out on bail. Whether as he claims it was a moment of fear or a premeditated lovers quarel will out. The noise about peds is just noise and few in the press here picked that out so it remains a piece of unconfirmed media noise. The sad thing is some one died and so young and the biggest story is a media fuss about a fallen celebrity. Many only to quick to gleefully jeer a fallen hero
South Africa has a high violent crime rate and home invasions are an issue. We all live behind high walls. I have a 6' wall with electric fence above to secure my property and I have armed security response. My mother in her 70's was attacked and beaten in her home and the criminals have never been caught.
Policing is woeful and some politicians corrupt. But there is a concerted effort to improve and slowly it will. I have worked with members of our church with prisoners to try to help rehabilitate them, to do my part. We have several successful programmes running at prisons and we found that re-offending from people who have completed the programme significantly lower. Crime rate are coming down and moments in SA like the 2010 soccer world cup where we had an almost crime free SA give us all hope. So sport can contribute to society. The story portrayed in the movie Invictus still holds a big place in most South African'
Miguel in 2011 I visited Mexico I ended up in Monterrey on my way to a mine called Penesquito . That week end I was there 10 people were found beheaded in the streets. Your people were calling for a president that would go soft on drug Lords because that will stop the violence. Please think about what you say before saying it, everywhere there are issues which are complicated and not simplistic, I find your amazement at police ignoring an accident interesting given the troubled situation in Mexico? This not to pick a fight but to raise a point about style in you posts.
Yes South is a country filled with fear and a legless Oscar had every reason to react the way he did but he broke the law by shooting through a door, his life or someone else's life was not in immediate danger, which is what SA law will test, in all likely hood he will technically have committed man slaughter and his defense will be in terms of mitigation of sentence, but I am not a lawyer...
South Africa has its faults and many have left but it is also a beautiful country with hope. A place where years of apartheid oppression gave way to democracy in a miraculous moment in 1994 and a world figure Nelson Mandela took control of the young democracy. Now we fight to retain that hard won battle against a scourge of violence and corruption, and people like Oscar give us all hope here, but people are people and none are perfect. We will see.
Regards
Nick Tatalias
Johannesburg
South Africa
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone
-----Original Message-----
From: "Perez, Miguel" miguel.perez@
Sender: Supertraining@
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:23:32
To: Supertraining@
Reply-To: Supertraining@
Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
An acquaintance of mine, a South African gemologist residing in Johannesburg, was involved in two car accidents recently, neither of which was his fault. On the first instance, the police were called but never arrived; on the second instance, the police did send a cruiser but the policemen just drove up to the scene, looked at the wreck, and drove off. Seriously!
Miguel Pérez
Reynosa, Mexico
From: Supertraining@
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:31 PM
To: Supertraining@
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
Hi Giovanni!
In a message dated 2/23/2013 10:53:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
Giovanni.Ciriani@
I've heard similar comments from acquaintances who left SA for the same
reason. They said that with the fear of home invasion that permeates the
country, what happened is sad but not surprising.
My "first" copy of Supertraining was ordered from SA. It never arrived.
I remember Mel mentioning that this was not unusual, noting the corruption
in the SA postal service. He ended up sending me a copy he had in Denver.
Ken Jakalski
Lisle HS
Lisle, IL USA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
____________
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the use of those to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and prohibited from further disclosure under law. If you have received this e-mail in error, its review, use, retention and/or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:58 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Terence Delaney" terenced
Seriously guys. Enough already. Should I start listing why friends of mine don't want to live in in Mexico or the USA? All this because of what one person has done for whatever reason.
I thought the media were shallow but I had though Supertraining was at least a level or 2 above that.
Â
I have lived in the US and UK and I am back in South Africa?
Terence Delaney
Proudly in Johannesburg, South Africa
>________________________________
> From: "Perez, Miguel" miguel.perez@crbard.com >
>To: "Supertraining@yahoogroups.com " Supertraining@yahoogroups.com >
>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:23 PM
>Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
>
>
>Â
>
>An acquaintance of mine, a South African gemologist residing in Johannesburg, was involved in two car accidents recently, neither of which was his fault. On the first instance, the police were called but never arrived; on the second instance, the police did send a cruiser but the policemen just drove up to the scene, looked at the wreck, and drove off. Seriously!
>
>Miguel Pérez
>Reynosa, Mexico
>
>From: mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mailto:CoachJ1%40aol.com
>Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:31 PM
>To: mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
>
>Hi Giovanni!
>
>In a message dated 2/23/2013 10:53:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>mailto:Giovanni.Ciriani%40Gmail.com writes:
>
>I've heard similar comments from acquaintances who left SA for the same
>reason. They said that with the fear of home invasion that permeates the
>country, what happened is sad but not surprising.
>My "first" copy of Supertraining was ordered from SA. It never arrived.
>I remember Mel mentioning that this was not unusual, noting the corruption
>in the SA postal service. He ended up sending me a copy he had in Denver.
>
>Ken Jakalski
>Lisle HS
>Lisle, IL USA
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>________________________________
>
>Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the use of those to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and prohibited from further disclosure under law. If you have received this e-mail in error, its review, use, retention and/or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.[v1.0]
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I thought the media were shallow but I had though Supertraining was at least a level or 2 above that.
Â
I have lived in the US and UK and I am back in South Africa?
Terence Delaney
Proudly in Johannesburg, South Africa
>________
> From: "Perez, Miguel" miguel.perez@
>To: "Supertraining@
>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:23 PM
>Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
>
>
>Â
>
>An acquaintance of mine, a South African gemologist residing in Johannesburg, was involved in two car accidents recently, neither of which was his fault. On the first instance, the police were called but never arrived; on the second instance, the police did send a cruiser but the policemen just drove up to the scene, looked at the wreck, and drove off. Seriously!
>
>Miguel Pérez
>Reynosa, Mexico
>
>From: mailto:Supertrainin
>Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:31 PM
>To: mailto:Supertrainin
>Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
>
>Hi Giovanni!
>
>In a message dated 2/23/2013 10:53:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>mailto:Giovanni
>
>I've heard similar comments from acquaintances who left SA for the same
>reason. They said that with the fear of home invasion that permeates the
>country, what happened is sad but not surprising.
>My "first" copy of Supertraining was ordered from SA. It never arrived.
>I remember Mel mentioning that this was not unusual, noting the corruption
>in the SA postal service. He ended up sending me a copy he had in Denver.
>
>Ken Jakalski
>Lisle HS
>Lisle, IL USA
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>________
>
>Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the use of those to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and prohibited from further disclosure under law. If you have received this e-mail in error, its review, use, retention and/or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fri Mar 1, 2013 5:13 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Perez, Miguel" metalhead2_mx
Nick,
Sorry my post upset you but please take it for what it is, a criticism ONLY of the policemen who "responded" to that call made by my friend. Period. My complaint does not extend to the whole country and its people! Police corruption/inaction is infuriating to any law-abiding person here, there, and everywhere. I hate that my friend got treated like that by law enforcement. I stand by that statement. Please do not read any politics, condescension, arrogance, or especially nationalism in my message because there are none. All I say is that that kind of police indifference is bullshit anywhere, be it in SA, Mexico, or elsewhere. What's more, living in a place where people experience similar things, I can relate: for instance, here the police will routinely charge you if you want them to locate your stolen car. Yep. It's outrageous, isn't it? Why would I feel angry if you found that outrageous? It's true, it is!
I immensely respect SA for what it has achieved and continues to achieve, for what it is, and what it has overcome. It's a beautiful place and I feel South Africans' frustration about the current state of things. That last sentence encapsulates my original point.
PS - South Africa, Mexico... it's all part of the same world, our world.
Miguel Pérez
Reynosa, Mexico
(No beheadings here thankfully)
-----Original Message-----
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of nick.tatalias@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:32 PM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
Hi Everyone
As one of the few South Africans on the board I feel a need to reply.
"Miguel in 2011 I visited Mexico I ended up in Monterrey on my way to a mine called Penesquito . That week end I was there 10 people were found beheaded in the streets. Your people were calling for a president that would go soft on drug Lords because that will stop the violence. Please think about what you say before saying it, everywhere there are issues which are complicated and not simplistic, I find your amazement at police ignoring an accident interesting given the troubled situation in Mexico? This not to pick a fight but to raise a point about style in you posts.
Yes South is a country filled with fear and a legless Oscar had every reason to react the way he did but he broke the law by shooting through a door, his life or someone else's life was not in immediate danger, which is what SA law will test, in all likely hood he will technically have committed man slaughter and his defense will be in terms of mitigation of sentence, but I am not a lawyer...
South Africa has its faults and many have left but it is also a beautiful country with hope. A place where years of apartheid oppression gave way to democracy in a miraculous moment in 1994 and a world figure Nelson Mandela took control of the young democracy. Now we fight to retain that hard won battle against a scourge of violence and corruption, and people like Oscar give us all hope here, but people are people and none are perfect. We will see.
Regards
Nick Tatalias
Johannesburg
South Africa Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone -----Original Message----- From: "Perez, Miguel" miguel.perez@crbard.com > Sender: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:23:32 To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com Supertraining@yahoogroups.com > Reply-To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story? An acquaintance of mine, a South African gemologist residing in Johannesburg, was involved in two car accidents recently, neither of which was his fault. On the first instance, the police were called but never arrived; on the second instance, the police did send a cruiser but the policemen just drove up to the scene, looked at the wreck, and drove off. Seriously! Miguel Pérez Reynosa, Mexico
________________________________
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the use of those to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and prohibited from further disclosure under law. If you have received this e-mail in error, its review, use, retention and/or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.[v1.0]
Sorry my post upset you but please take it for what it is, a criticism ONLY of the policemen who "responded&quo
I immensely respect SA for what it has achieved and continues to achieve, for what it is, and what it has overcome. It's a beautiful place and I feel South Africans' frustration about the current state of things. That last sentence encapsulates my original point.
PS - South Africa, Mexico... it's all part of the same world, our world.
Miguel Pérez
Reynosa, Mexico
(No beheadings here thankfully)
-----Original Message-----
From: Supertraining@
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:32 PM
To: Supertraining@
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
Hi Everyone
As one of the few South Africans on the board I feel a need to reply.
"Miguel in 2011 I visited Mexico I ended up in Monterrey on my way to a mine called Penesquito . That week end I was there 10 people were found beheaded in the streets. Your people were calling for a president that would go soft on drug Lords because that will stop the violence. Please think about what you say before saying it, everywhere there are issues which are complicated and not simplistic, I find your amazement at police ignoring an accident interesting given the troubled situation in Mexico? This not to pick a fight but to raise a point about style in you posts.
Yes South is a country filled with fear and a legless Oscar had every reason to react the way he did but he broke the law by shooting through a door, his life or someone else's life was not in immediate danger, which is what SA law will test, in all likely hood he will technically have committed man slaughter and his defense will be in terms of mitigation of sentence, but I am not a lawyer...
South Africa has its faults and many have left but it is also a beautiful country with hope. A place where years of apartheid oppression gave way to democracy in a miraculous moment in 1994 and a world figure Nelson Mandela took control of the young democracy. Now we fight to retain that hard won battle against a scourge of violence and corruption, and people like Oscar give us all hope here, but people are people and none are perfect. We will see.
Regards
Nick Tatalias
Johannesburg
South Africa Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone -----Original Message----- From: "Perez, Miguel" miguel.perez@
____________
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the use of those to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and prohibited from further disclosure under law. If you have received this e-mail in error, its review, use, retention and/or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.
Fri Mar 1, 2013 5:13 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Perez, Miguel" metalhead2_mx
South African guys,
Neither Giovanni nor I are implying what you think we are. Please read our posts dispassionately and without preconceptions. Giovanni sympathized with Mel, and I sympathize with David, my South African friend. And that is all that we are saying. I am NOT passing judgment on South Africa or Mr. Pistorius; it would be stupid of me to do so. In my case I am simply identifying with, or relating to, the frustration felt by law-abiding SA nationals at the way things currently are in their country. I feel exactly the same way about the way things are here.
Again, I never said “my country is better than yours!†now did I? I am the least nationalistic person you’ll ever meet. Countries are just made-up concepts, artificial, imaginary.
Miguel Pérez
26°05′32″N 98°16′40″W
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Terence Delaney
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:00 AM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
Seriously guys. Enough already. Should I start listing why friends of mine don't want to live in in Mexico or the USA? All this because of what one person has done for whatever reason.
I thought the media were shallow but I had though Supertraining was at least a level or 2 above that.
I have lived in the US and UK and I am back in South Africa?
Terence Delaney
Proudly in Johannesburg, South Africa
>________________________________
> From: "Perez, Miguel" miguel.perez@crbard.com >
>To: "Supertraining@yahoogroups.com " Supertraining@yahoogroups.com >
>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:23 PM
>Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
>
>
>
>
>An acquaintance of mine, a South African gemologist residing in Johannesburg, was involved in two car accidents recently, neither of which was his fault. On the first instance, the police were called but never arrived; on the second instance, the police did send a cruiser but the policemen just drove up to the scene, looked at the wreck, and drove off. Seriously!
>
>Miguel Pérez
>Reynosa, Mexico
>
>From: mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mailto:CoachJ1%40aol.com
>Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:31 PM
>To: mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
>
>Hi Giovanni!
>
>In a message dated 2/23/2013 10:53:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>mailto:Giovanni.Ciriani%40Gmail.com writes:
>
>I've heard similar comments from acquaintances who left SA for the same
>reason. They said that with the fear of home invasion that permeates the
>country, what happened is sad but not surprising.
>My "first" copy of Supertraining was ordered from SA. It never arrived.
>I remember Mel mentioning that this was not unusual, noting the corruption
>in the SA postal service. He ended up sending me a copy he had in Denver.
>
>Ken Jakalski
>Lisle HS
>Lisle, IL USA
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>________________________________
>
>Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the use of those to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and prohibited from further disclosure under law. If you have received this e-mail in error, its review, use, retention and/or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.[v1.0]
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Neither Giovanni nor I are implying what you think we are. Please read our posts dispassionately and without preconceptions. Giovanni sympathized with Mel, and I sympathize with David, my South African friend. And that is all that we are saying. I am NOT passing judgment on South Africa or Mr. Pistorius; it would be stupid of me to do so. In my case I am simply identifying with, or relating to, the frustration felt by law-abiding SA nationals at the way things currently are in their country. I feel exactly the same way about the way things are here.
Again, I never said “my country is better than yours!†now did I? I am the least nationalistic person you’ll ever meet. Countries are just made-up concepts, artificial, imaginary.
Miguel Pérez
26°05′32″N 98°16′40″W
From: Supertraining@
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:00 AM
To: Supertraining@
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
Seriously guys. Enough already. Should I start listing why friends of mine don't want to live in in Mexico or the USA? All this because of what one person has done for whatever reason.
I thought the media were shallow but I had though Supertraining was at least a level or 2 above that.
I have lived in the US and UK and I am back in South Africa?
Terence Delaney
Proudly in Johannesburg, South Africa
>________
> From: "Perez, Miguel" miguel.perez@
>To: "Supertraining@
>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:23 PM
>Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
>
>
>
>
>An acquaintance of mine, a South African gemologist residing in Johannesburg, was involved in two car accidents recently, neither of which was his fault. On the first instance, the police were called but never arrived; on the second instance, the police did send a cruiser but the policemen just drove up to the scene, looked at the wreck, and drove off. Seriously!
>
>Miguel Pérez
>Reynosa, Mexico
>
>From: mailto:Supertrainin
>Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:31 PM
>To: mailto:Supertrainin
>Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
>
>Hi Giovanni!
>
>In a message dated 2/23/2013 10:53:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>mailto:Giovanni
>
>I've heard similar comments from acquaintances who left SA for the same
>reason. They said that with the fear of home invasion that permeates the
>country, what happened is sad but not surprising.
>My "first" copy of Supertraining was ordered from SA. It never arrived.
>I remember Mel mentioning that this was not unusual, noting the corruption
>in the SA postal service. He ended up sending me a copy he had in Denver.
>
>Ken Jakalski
>Lisle HS
>Lisle, IL USA
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>________
>
>Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the use of those to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and prohibited from further disclosure under law. If you have received this e-mail in error, its review, use, retention and/or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nick -
Points well taken, the main thrust of this thread is not the safety of countries really - I personally know someone who was kidnapped traveling for business in Mexico for example, and I live in a state (Colorado) where a complete nut shot up a theater of moviegoers....sigh. Unless one is the sole occupant of an island without any visitors or natural hazards (e.g. volcanos or tsunamis, Komodo dragons...) one could presume to have some inherent risk as humans tend to do unpredictable things at times...most benign thankfully. I mean, I don't think anybody needs an AK 47 to hunt deer, the stags are said to be particularly poor shots...(humor intended).
The defense of the gentleman in question was that he believed his home was being invaded and is said to have thus shot through a door, killing his girlfriend tragically. As you point out, there are good many reasons this may happen in S.A. and Mel had made several comments to my recollection, one being that a host went first through the door, ahead of the women and children to be sure the room was safe... but I don't recall him suggesting that it was generally necessary to walk one's home armed and shoot at doors...?
The more the PED comments from the general media go forward, the more a suspicion of some mistaken thing or an attempt to sensationalize the situation with a "red herring". Implications of "roid rage" as an explanation.. again, I recalled our previous discussions of PED unlikely usage by persons with similar challenges and that if anything, such individuals may find PED even less safe than the general athlete. That such athletes often sleep poorly, have temperature moderation issues and other things that make usage a very bad idea.
At this point, my hope is that the message of hope for many challenged athletes of true mainstream inclusion will not be blown away by whatever the truth is about the death of the young lady in this case. Over the years, I've seen some very strong blind PL for example who may have placed very well at the national level in the main sport, not just in their separate nationals.
The Phantom, aka
Linda Schaefer Hanley, RMT/CMT, competing powerlifter
Denver, Colorado, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "nick tatalias" nick.tatalias@gmail.com >
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:31:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
Hi Everyone
As one of the few South Africans on the board I feel a need to reply.
The facts of the Oscar case are a little unclear. Oscar maintains his innocence but then he would, any normal person would. However there have been few facts presented in the case and this was a bail hearing which determines a persons risk of flight and of interfering with the investigation. Oscar is out on bail. Whether as he claims it was a moment of fear or a premeditated lovers quarel will out. The noise about peds is just noise and few in the press here picked that out so it remains a piece of unconfirmed media noise. The sad thing is some one died and so young and the biggest story is a media fuss about a fallen celebrity. Many only to quick to gleefully jeer a fallen hero
South Africa has a high violent crime rate and home invasions are an issue. We all live behind high walls. I have a 6' wall with electric fence above to secure my property and I have armed security response. My mother in her 70's was attacked and beaten in her home and the criminals have never been caught.
Policing is woeful and some politicians corrupt. But there is a concerted effort to improve and slowly it will. I have worked with members of our church with prisoners to try to help rehabilitate them, to do my part. We have several successful programmes running at prisons and we found that re-offending from people who have completed the programme significantly lower. Crime rate are coming down and moments in SA like the 2010 soccer world cup where we had an almost crime free SA give us all hope. So sport can contribute to society. The story portrayed in the movie Invictus still holds a big place in most South African's hearts.
Miguel in 2011 I visited Mexico I ended up in Monterrey on my way to a mine called Penesquito . That week end I was there 10 people were found beheaded in the streets. Your people were calling for a president that would go soft on drug Lords because that will stop the violence. Please think about what you say before saying it, everywhere there are issues which are complicated and not simplistic, I find your amazement at police ignoring an accident interesting given the troubled situation in Mexico? This not to pick a fight but to raise a point about style in you posts.
Yes South is a country filled with fear and a legless Oscar had every reason to react the way he did but he broke the law by shooting through a door, his life or someone else's life was not in immediate danger, which is what SA law will test, in all likely hood he will technically have committed man slaughter and his defense will be in terms of mitigation of sentence, but I am not a lawyer...
South Africa has its faults and many have left but it is also a beautiful country with hope. A place where years of apartheid oppression gave way to democracy in a miraculous moment in 1994 and a world figure Nelson Mandela took control of the young democracy. Now we fight to retain that hard won battle against a scourge of violence and corruption, and people like Oscar give us all hope here, but people are people and none are perfect. We will see.
Regards
Nick Tatalias
Johannesburg
South Africa
Sent from my BlackBerry� smartphone
-----Original Message-----
From: "Perez, Miguel" miguel.perez@crbard.com >
Sender: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:23:32
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com Supertraining@yahoogroups.com >
Reply-To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
An acquaintance of mine, a South African gemologist residing in Johannesburg, was involved in two car accidents recently, neither of which was his fault. On the first instance, the police were called but never arrived; on the second instance, the police did send a cruiser but the policemen just drove up to the scene, looked at the wreck, and drove off. Seriously!
Miguel P�rez
Reynosa, Mexico
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of CoachJ1@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:31 PM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
Hi Giovanni!
In a message dated 2/23/2013 10:53:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com writes:
I've heard similar comments from acquaintances who left SA for the same
reason. They said that with the fear of home invasion that permeates the
country, what happened is sad but not surprising.
My "first" copy of Supertraining was ordered from SA. It never arrived.
I remember Mel mentioning that this was not unusual, noting the corruption
in the SA postal service. He ended up sending me a copy he had in Denver.
Ken Jakalski
Lisle HS
Lisle, IL USA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Points well taken, the main thrust of this thread is not the safety of countries really - I personally know someone who was kidnapped traveling for business in Mexico for example, and I live in a state (Colorado) where a complete nut shot up a theater of moviegoers..
The defense of the gentleman in question was that he believed his home was being invaded and is said to have thus shot through a door, killing his girlfriend tragically. As you point out, there are good many reasons this may happen in S.A. and Mel had made several comments to my recollection, one being that a host went first through the door, ahead of the women and children to be sure the room was safe... but I don't recall him suggesting that it was generally necessary to walk one's home armed and shoot at doors...?
The more the PED comments from the general media go forward, the more a suspicion of some mistaken thing or an attempt to sensationalize the situation with a "red herring"
At this point, my hope is that the message of hope for many challenged athletes of true mainstream inclusion will not be blown away by whatever the truth is about the death of the young lady in this case. Over the years, I've seen some very strong blind PL for example who may have placed very well at the national level in the main sport, not just in their separate nationals.
The Phantom, aka
Linda Schaefer Hanley, RMT/CMT, competing powerlifter
Denver, Colorado, USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "nick tatalias" nick.tatalias@
To: Supertraining@
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:31:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
Hi Everyone
As one of the few South Africans on the board I feel a need to reply.
The facts of the Oscar case are a little unclear. Oscar maintains his innocence but then he would, any normal person would. However there have been few facts presented in the case and this was a bail hearing which determines a persons risk of flight and of interfering with the investigation. Oscar is out on bail. Whether as he claims it was a moment of fear or a premeditated lovers quarel will out. The noise about peds is just noise and few in the press here picked that out so it remains a piece of unconfirmed media noise. The sad thing is some one died and so young and the biggest story is a media fuss about a fallen celebrity. Many only to quick to gleefully jeer a fallen hero
South Africa has a high violent crime rate and home invasions are an issue. We all live behind high walls. I have a 6' wall with electric fence above to secure my property and I have armed security response. My mother in her 70's was attacked and beaten in her home and the criminals have never been caught.
Policing is woeful and some politicians corrupt. But there is a concerted effort to improve and slowly it will. I have worked with members of our church with prisoners to try to help rehabilitate them, to do my part. We have several successful programmes running at prisons and we found that re-offending from people who have completed the programme significantly lower. Crime rate are coming down and moments in SA like the 2010 soccer world cup where we had an almost crime free SA give us all hope. So sport can contribute to society. The story portrayed in the movie Invictus still holds a big place in most South African'
Miguel in 2011 I visited Mexico I ended up in Monterrey on my way to a mine called Penesquito . That week end I was there 10 people were found beheaded in the streets. Your people were calling for a president that would go soft on drug Lords because that will stop the violence. Please think about what you say before saying it, everywhere there are issues which are complicated and not simplistic, I find your amazement at police ignoring an accident interesting given the troubled situation in Mexico? This not to pick a fight but to raise a point about style in you posts.
Yes South is a country filled with fear and a legless Oscar had every reason to react the way he did but he broke the law by shooting through a door, his life or someone else's life was not in immediate danger, which is what SA law will test, in all likely hood he will technically have committed man slaughter and his defense will be in terms of mitigation of sentence, but I am not a lawyer...
South Africa has its faults and many have left but it is also a beautiful country with hope. A place where years of apartheid oppression gave way to democracy in a miraculous moment in 1994 and a world figure Nelson Mandela took control of the young democracy. Now we fight to retain that hard won battle against a scourge of violence and corruption, and people like Oscar give us all hope here, but people are people and none are perfect. We will see.
Regards
Nick Tatalias
Johannesburg
South Africa
Sent from my BlackBerry� smartphone
-----Original Message-----
From: "Perez, Miguel" miguel.perez@
Sender: Supertraining@
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:23:32
To: Supertraining@
Reply-To: Supertraining@
Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
An acquaintance of mine, a South African gemologist residing in Johannesburg, was involved in two car accidents recently, neither of which was his fault. On the first instance, the police were called but never arrived; on the second instance, the police did send a cruiser but the policemen just drove up to the scene, looked at the wreck, and drove off. Seriously!
Miguel P�rez
Reynosa, Mexico
From: Supertraining@
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:31 PM
To: Supertraining@
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Blade Runner - the sad story?
Hi Giovanni!
In a message dated 2/23/2013 10:53:08 A.M. Central Standard Time,
Giovanni.Ciriani@
I've heard similar comments from acquaintances who left SA for the same
reason. They said that with the fear of home invasion that permeates the
country, what happened is sad but not surprising.
My "first" copy of Supertraining was ordered from SA. It never arrived.
I remember Mel mentioning that this was not unusual, noting the corruption
in the SA postal service. He ended up sending me a copy he had in Denver.
Ken Jakalski
Lisle HS
Lisle, IL USA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
____________
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for the use of those to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential and prohibited from further disclosure under law. If you have received this e-mail in error, its review, use, retention and/or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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