3 New Messages
Digest #4644
2a
Re: "International Workshop on Strength & Conditioning" of Trivandru by "Andrew Sheaff" andrew.sheaff
Messages
Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:57 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Giovanni Ciriani" gciriani
Martin,
The hyperbolic shape of the force velocity curve is a theory confirmed by
experimental measurements since 1938. Please see the the following
experimental graphs:
http://bit.ly/
from Bottinelli R, Reggiani C. Human skeletal muscle fibres: molecular and
functional diversity. *Progress in Biophysics and Molecular Biology*.
2000;73(2-4)
and http://bit.ly/
from Wohlfart P, Edman KAP. Rectangular hyperbola fitted to muscle
force-velocity data using three-dimensional regression analysis. *Exp
Physiol.* 1994;79(2):235–239.
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Martin Huizing <martinhuizing1@
> **
>
>
> Hi Giovanni,
>
> Most theory books show a hyperbolic F-v relationship.
> Sometimes practice shows you different.
> If you jump up from the same CoM height with different weights, you will
> find a pretty perfect F-v relationship, which will bring you a nice
> hyperbolic F-height relationship.
>
> In fact, the same F-v relationship you will find if you would measure
> Force and velocity at a given CoM height ('dip'), jumping from different
> CoM heights.
> As far as I know, this has not been studied, or at least published yet.
> It will also help in constructing the correct research setup.
> I wrote an article about part of this some time ago (in Dutch):
> www.knkf.nl/
> Translated ...
> http://translate.
> ).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin Huizing
>
>
> ____________
> From: Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@
> To: Supertraining@
> Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2012 2:09 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
>
>
> Martin, the link is not working. I will read the studies, but based on math
> alone you cannot obtain the force-velocity curve with two points. It's a
> hyperbolic curve for which you one needs at least three points. Besides
> that an experimental curve will need even more points because of sampling
> errors.
> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
>
> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:09 AM, Martin Huizing <martinhuizing1@
> >wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > You jump 2 times on a force plate or contact mat, using 2 different extra
> > weights, for example 1 x with 0kg, 1 x with 10kg.
> > The results are extrapolated to a 1RM, see
> > http://www.galileo2
> > Not only will you receive the theoretical 1RM, but also the whole
> > theoretical force-velocity relationship.
> >
> > The force-velocity in bench press was studied by Jidovtseff:
> > Jidovtseff, B, Harris, NK, Crielaard, J-M, and Cronin, JB. Using
> >
> > the load-velocity relationship for 1RM prediction. J Strength
> > Cond Res 24(x): 000–000, 2009—The purpose of this study
> > was to investigate the ability of the load-velocity relationship to
> > accurately predict a bench press 1 repetition maximum (1RM).
> > Data from 3 different bench press studies (n = 112) that
> > incorporated both 1RM assessment and submaximal load-
> > velocity profiling were analyzed. Individual regression analysis
> > was performed to determine the theoretical load at zero
> > velocity (LD0). Data from each of the 3 studies were analyzed
> > separately and also presented as overall group mean.
> > Thereafter, correlation analysis provided quantification of the
> > relationships between 1RM and LD0. Practically perfect
> > correlations (r = ;0.95) were observed in our samples,
> > confirming the ability of the load-velocity profile to accurately
> > predict bench press 1RM.
> >
> > I tested it with a force plate and contact mat, and it works perfectly
> for
> > jumping also.
> > Therefore I developed a software to do this calculation, including a
> > comparison to earier test sessions, so to study the development.
> >
> > Please note, that the 1RM depends on more than just muscle strength, and
> > also depends on other qualities like mental toughness, stability and
> > technique.
> > An athlete can be able to squat a certain 1RM from muscle strength, but
> > can lack in other qualities mentioned.
> > As 1RM is used mainly to determine the optimal weight for submaximal
> > training, this is a relatively safe alternative.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Martin Huizing
> > The Netherlands
> >
> > ____________
> > From: Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@
> > To: Supertraining@
> > Sent: Monday, December 3, 2012 5:21 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > How do you do that? Can you give some detail please?
> > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 4:07 AM, Martin Huizing <martinhuizing1@
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > **
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > You can perform 2 jumps with different weights and measure the height
> on
> > a
> > > force plate or contact mat. From the results, you can calculate the 1RM
> > for
> > > squat. Other 1RM are related to this squat 1RM.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The hyperbolic shape of the force velocity curve is a theory confirmed by
experimental measurements since 1938. Please see the the following
experimental graphs:
http://bit.ly/
from Bottinelli R, Reggiani C. Human skeletal muscle fibres: molecular and
functional diversity. *Progress in Biophysics and Molecular Biology*.
2000;73(2-4)
and http://bit.ly/
from Wohlfart P, Edman KAP. Rectangular hyperbola fitted to muscle
force-velocity data using three-dimensional regression analysis. *Exp
Physiol.* 1994;79(2):235–239.
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Martin Huizing <martinhuizing1@
> **
>
>
> Hi Giovanni,
>
> Most theory books show a hyperbolic F-v relationship.
> Sometimes practice shows you different.
> If you jump up from the same CoM height with different weights, you will
> find a pretty perfect F-v relationship, which will bring you a nice
> hyperbolic F-height relationship.
>
> In fact, the same F-v relationship you will find if you would measure
> Force and velocity at a given CoM height ('dip'), jumping from different
> CoM heights.
> As far as I know, this has not been studied, or at least published yet.
> It will also help in constructing the correct research setup.
> I wrote an article about part of this some time ago (in Dutch):
> www.knkf.nl/
> Translated ...
> http://translate.
> ).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin Huizing
>
>
> ____________
> From: Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@
> To: Supertraining@
> Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2012 2:09 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
>
>
> Martin, the link is not working. I will read the studies, but based on math
> alone you cannot obtain the force-velocity curve with two points. It's a
> hyperbolic curve for which you one needs at least three points. Besides
> that an experimental curve will need even more points because of sampling
> errors.
> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
>
> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:09 AM, Martin Huizing <martinhuizing1@
> >wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > You jump 2 times on a force plate or contact mat, using 2 different extra
> > weights, for example 1 x with 0kg, 1 x with 10kg.
> > The results are extrapolated to a 1RM, see
> > http://www.galileo2
> > Not only will you receive the theoretical 1RM, but also the whole
> > theoretical force-velocity relationship.
> >
> > The force-velocity in bench press was studied by Jidovtseff:
> > Jidovtseff, B, Harris, NK, Crielaard, J-M, and Cronin, JB. Using
> >
> > the load-velocity relationship for 1RM prediction. J Strength
> > Cond Res 24(x): 000–000, 2009—The purpose of this study
> > was to investigate the ability of the load-velocity relationship to
> > accurately predict a bench press 1 repetition maximum (1RM).
> > Data from 3 different bench press studies (n = 112) that
> > incorporated both 1RM assessment and submaximal load-
> > velocity profiling were analyzed. Individual regression analysis
> > was performed to determine the theoretical load at zero
> > velocity (LD0). Data from each of the 3 studies were analyzed
> > separately and also presented as overall group mean.
> > Thereafter, correlation analysis provided quantification of the
> > relationships between 1RM and LD0. Practically perfect
> > correlations (r = ;0.95) were observed in our samples,
> > confirming the ability of the load-velocity profile to accurately
> > predict bench press 1RM.
> >
> > I tested it with a force plate and contact mat, and it works perfectly
> for
> > jumping also.
> > Therefore I developed a software to do this calculation, including a
> > comparison to earier test sessions, so to study the development.
> >
> > Please note, that the 1RM depends on more than just muscle strength, and
> > also depends on other qualities like mental toughness, stability and
> > technique.
> > An athlete can be able to squat a certain 1RM from muscle strength, but
> > can lack in other qualities mentioned.
> > As 1RM is used mainly to determine the optimal weight for submaximal
> > training, this is a relatively safe alternative.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Martin Huizing
> > The Netherlands
> >
> > ____________
> > From: Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@
> > To: Supertraining@
> > Sent: Monday, December 3, 2012 5:21 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > How do you do that? Can you give some detail please?
> > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 4:07 AM, Martin Huizing <martinhuizing1@
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > **
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > You can perform 2 jumps with different weights and measure the height
> on
> > a
> > > force plate or contact mat. From the results, you can calculate the 1RM
> > for
> > > squat. Other 1RM are related to this squat 1RM.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:58 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Henk Kraaijenhof" henkkraaijenhof
While studying the force-velocity curve one should take into account:
-is the test done in isolated frog muscle or in multi-joint human muscle
-is it done with or wthout prestretch conditions
-in ballistic (jumps) or non-ballistic exercises (legpress)
Otherwise comparison becomes a useless exercise!
Carmelo Bosco used to use the Bosco index: height of squat jump with
bodyweight divided by ehight of squat jump without load X 100% .
Approximate optimal balance, of course dependent on the type of sport,
around 40%
Henk Kraaijenhof
Amstelveen
Holland
Martin, the link is not working. I will read the studies, but based on
math
alone you cannot obtain the force-velocity curve with two points. It's a
hyperbolic curve for which you one needs at least three points. Besides
that an experimental curve will need even more points because of sampling
errors.
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 4:09 AM, Martin Huizing
<martinhuizing1@
> **
>
>
> You jump 2 times on a force plate or contact mat, using 2 different
> extra
> weights, for example 1 x with 0kg, 1 x with 10kg.
> The results are extrapolated to a 1RM, see
> http://www.galileo2
> Not only will you receive the theoretical 1RM, but also the whole
> theoretical force-velocity relationship.
>
> The force-velocity in bench press was studied by Jidovtseff:
> Jidovtseff, B, Harris, NK, Crielaard, J-M, and Cronin, JB. Using
>
> the load-velocity relationship for 1RM prediction. J Strength
> Cond Res 24(x): 000–000, 2009—The purpose of this study
> was to investigate the ability of the load-velocity relationship to
> accurately predict a bench press 1 repetition maximum (1RM).
> Data from 3 different bench press studies (n = 112) that
> incorporated both 1RM assessment and submaximal load-
> velocity profiling were analyzed. Individual regression analysis
> was performed to determine the theoretical load at zero
> velocity (LD0). Data from each of the 3 studies were analyzed
> separately and also presented as overall group mean.
> Thereafter, correlation analysis provided quantification of the
> relationships between 1RM and LD0. Practically perfect
> correlations (r = ;0.95) were observed in our samples,
> confirming the ability of the load-velocity profile to accurately
> predict bench press 1RM.
>
> I tested it with a force plate and contact mat, and it works perfectly
> for
> jumping also.
> Therefore I developed a software to do this calculation, including a
> comparison to earier test sessions, so to study the development.
>
> Please note, that the 1RM depends on more than just muscle strength, and
> also depends on other qualities like mental toughness, stability and
> technique.
> An athlete can be able to squat a certain 1RM from muscle strength, but
> can lack in other qualities mentioned.
> As 1RM is used mainly to determine the optimal weight for submaximal
> training, this is a relatively safe alternative.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin Huizing
> The Netherlands
>
> ____________
> From: Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@
> To: Supertraining@
> Sent: Monday, December 3, 2012 5:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
>
>
>
> How do you do that? Can you give some detail please?
> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
>
> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 4:07 AM, Martin Huizing <martinhuizing1@
> >wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > You can perform 2 jumps with different weights and measure the height
> on
> a
> > force plate or contact mat. From the results, you can calculate the
> 1RM
> for
> > squat. Other 1RM are related to this squat 1RM.
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:58 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Andrew Sheaff" andrew.sheaff
Hi Carlo-
I have a couple questions about the abstract of presentation number B.
Could you expand on the evidence that <85% of 1RM is optimal for nervous
system adaptations? I do not disagree with the assertion, but what
evidence is there that these gains are neurally as opposed to structurally
related, particularly when research seems to indicate otherwise, as you
alluded to? Would it be strength gains in the absence of hypertrophy/
weight change?
Thanks,
Andrew Sheaff
Chicago, IL, USA
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 7:42 PM, carlobuzzichelli2 <strength_coach@
> **
>
>
> You can find the abstracts of my presentations at the "International
> Workshop on Strength & Conditioning" of Trivandrum (India), at the
> following address:
>
>
> http://www.tbi-
>
> Best,
> Carlo Buzzichelli, TBI-MPS
> Technical Director of the Tudor Bompa Institute - International
> (Italy)
> http://www.facebook
> http://www.facebook
> http://www.facebook
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have a couple questions about the abstract of presentation number B.
Could you expand on the evidence that <85% of 1RM is optimal for nervous
system adaptations? I do not disagree with the assertion, but what
evidence is there that these gains are neurally as opposed to structurally
related, particularly when research seems to indicate otherwise, as you
alluded to? Would it be strength gains in the absence of hypertrophy/
weight change?
Thanks,
Andrew Sheaff
Chicago, IL, USA
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 7:42 PM, carlobuzzichelli2 <strength_coach@
> **
>
>
> You can find the abstracts of my presentations at the "International
> Workshop on Strength & Conditioning" of Trivandrum (India), at the
> following address:
>
>
> http://www.tbi-
>
> Best,
> Carlo Buzzichelli, TBI-MPS
> Technical Director of the Tudor Bompa Institute - International
> (Italy)
> http://www.facebook
> http://www.facebook
> http://www.facebook
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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