Saturday 21 April 2012

[Supertraining] Digest Number 4554

Messages In This Digest (4 Messages)

1a.
Re: 1 Rep Max From: Giovanni Ciriani
1b.
Re: 1 Rep Max From: Jerry Watson
1c.
Re: 1 Rep Max From: Ralph Giarnella
2.
Re: 1RM From: Dr. Tye W. Botting

Messages

1a.

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Giovanni Ciriani" Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com   gciriani

Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:17 am (PDT)



Ralph,
You have to add force of gravity to your equation (and any other other
force intervening).
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@yahoo.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I have been following this discussion with interest.
>
> My understanding of Max1rm is that it is simply a bench mark for an
> individual to use as a means of planning a training regimen and to measure
> progress over time.
>
> How this is Max 1rm is done probably matters only to the individual as
> long as every time it is measured it is conducted in the same manner.
>
> I am not sure that the Max 1 rm really measures max force but rather max
> effort. Measurement of force requires in its equation rate of acceleration.
>
> Force = Mass (x) Acceleration
>
> Ralph Giarnella MD
> Southington Ct. USA
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net>
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 2:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
>
>
>
> I think often we get confused with what we are looking at. Keith is 100%
> correct that in a "TRUE" 1RM effort we will be applying the greatest muscle
> and mechanical force we can to that effort and "speed" will be a by-product
> of that effort.
>
> The confusion I speak of is when we begin to combine a specific
> "competitive" lift and the rule parameters of that lift, which may include
> a
> speed, or a pause, or some other component that will actually be NOT
> representative of a TRUE 1RM effort.
>
> So the take home is that the speed component is an observable by-product of
> a 1RM (or any RM) but it is NOT the component that defines the effort as a
> 1RM.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Casler
> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> Century City, CA
>
> -||||--------||||-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Keith Hobman
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
> Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests
> neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by
> requirements
> outside of force and velocity.
>
> Keith Hobman
> Saskatoon, Canada
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1b.

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Jerry Watson" jwats8888@yahoo.com   jwats8888

Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:17 am (PDT)





Moderator, sorry, forgot to sign the last one
 
To Ralph's point.
Force is linear and not entirely correct in this instance. The human body has joints and therefore and axis. Torque(rotational force) would be the appropriate term in this instance and requires a "moment arm"(i.e the distance the resistance is placed from the axis. T= F(mxa) x D(Distance from axis). Were just a big system of levers. Inertia, friction, etc are also factors that would be needed to take into account as well. Semantics...I know. But its the details that matter.
I would also be interested to hear discussion on the following:
Smith machine bench press vs. supine bench press. If I could do more "weight" on a smith machine, would that be idicative of "maximal neurological effort" or would less "weight" on a regular bench be "more" neurological effort in regard to a "1RM"...whatever 1RM implies??
 
Jerry Watson
Lake Mary, FL
 
From: Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@yahoo.com>
To: "Supertraining@yahoogroups.com" <Supertraining@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max

 
I have been following this discussion with interest.  

My understanding of Max1rm is that it is simply a bench mark for an individual to use as a means of planning a training regimen and to measure progress over time.  

How this is  Max 1rm is done probably matters only to the individual as long as every time it is measured it is conducted in the same manner. 

I am not sure that the Max 1 rm really measures max force but rather max effort.  Measurement of force requires in its equation rate of acceleration.

Force = Mass (x) Acceleration

Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA 

________________________________
From: John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net>
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max

 
I think often we get confused with what we are looking at. Keith is 100%
correct that in a "TRUE" 1RM effort we will be applying the greatest muscle
and mechanical force we can to that effort and "speed" will be a by-product
of that effort.

The confusion I speak of is when we begin to combine a specific
"competitive" lift and the rule parameters of that lift, which may include a
speed, or a pause, or some other component that will actually be NOT
representative of a TRUE 1RM effort.

So the take home is that the speed component is an observable by-product of
a 1RM (or any RM) but it is NOT the component that defines the effort as a
1RM.

Regards,

John Casler
TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
Century City, CA

-||||--------||||-

-----Original Message-----
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Keith Hobman
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54 AM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max

Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests
neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by requirements
outside of force and velocity.

Keith Hobman
Saskatoon, Canada

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1c.

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Ralph Giarnella" ragiarn@yahoo.com   ragiarn

Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:34 am (PDT)



Weight = gravity.  No gravity no weight  

The point I was trying to make is that all we measure for a 1 Max rm is the weight lifted.  
Measurements of  work done, amount of force applied, power generated,  require that we make other measurements other that the weight lifted. 
It takes more force to lift 200 lbs in 2 seconds than it does to lift it in 4 seconds.  Force = mass x acceleration.  The greater the acceleration the greater the force required. In this case we need to measure how long it takes to move the object.

Work done = mass x distance.  There is more work done if a weight is lifted 18 inches vs 12 inches.  A tall person does more work lifting 200 lbs than a short person.  

With regards: to power Power = works x distance/time. Moving 200 lbs 18inches in 2 seconds requires more power than moving 200 lbs 18 inches  in 4 seconds. 

Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA 

________________________________
From: Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com>
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max


 
Ralph,
You have to add force of gravity to your equation (and any other other
force intervening).
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Ralph Giarnella <ragiarn@yahoo.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I have been following this discussion with interest.
>
> My understanding of Max1rm is that it is simply a bench mark for an
> individual to use as a means of planning a training regimen and to measure
> progress over time.
>
> How this is Max 1rm is done probably matters only to the individual as
> long as every time it is measured it is conducted in the same manner.
>
> I am not sure that the Max 1 rm really measures max force but rather max
> effort. Measurement of force requires in its equation rate of acceleration.
>
> Force = Mass (x) Acceleration
>
> Ralph Giarnella MD
> Southington Ct. USA
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net>
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 2:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
>
>
>
> I think often we get confused with what we are looking at. Keith is 100%
> correct that in a "TRUE" 1RM effort we will be applying the greatest muscle
> and mechanical force we can to that effort and "speed" will be a by-product
> of that effort.
>
> The confusion I speak of is when we begin to combine a specific
> "competitive" lift and the rule parameters of that lift, which may include
> a
> speed, or a pause, or some other component that will actually be NOT
> representative of a TRUE 1RM effort.
>
> So the take home is that the speed component is an observable by-product of
> a 1RM (or any RM) but it is NOT the component that defines the effort as a
> 1RM.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Casler
> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> Century City, CA
>
> -||||--------||||-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Keith Hobman
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
> Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests
> neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by
> requirements
> outside of force and velocity.
>
> Keith Hobman
> Saskatoon, Canada
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

2.

Re: 1RM

Posted by: "Dr. Tye W. Botting" tye@kungfu.cc   tyebotting

Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:18 am (PDT)



To clarify, you've got the right equation for force, but the acceleration
in this case comes from the acceleration due to gravity. Thus, force is
measured in Newtons (metric) or pounds (english). So, a 1RM done so slow
that the change in velocity is negligible would indeed be "the max force
you can exert." Any non-negligible change in speed would be due to
additional force exerted beyond the force the weight exerts downward due to
gravity (i.e. the weight's weight. ;-)). Measure the delta-V throughout
the movement, and you can backtrack to the instantaneous force exerted by
the lifter at any point during the lift - a good way to spot sticking
points and help target assistance work.

Tye W. Botting, PhD
Springfield, VA, USA

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 9:34 AM, <Supertraining@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> I am not sure that the Max 1 rm really measures max force but rather max
> effort. Measurement of force requires in its equation rate of acceleration.
>
> Force = Mass (x) Acceleration
>
> Ralph Giarnella MD
> Southington Ct. USA
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Relationship-Talk] Re: A friendship question

 



--- In Relationship-Talk@yahoogroups.com, "James" wrote:
>
> Almost a year ago, I met a woman who works for this fellowship I attend. There are many members, I being one of them. This person is married, and we seem to enjoy each other's company. We always talk about everything, including our personal lives. I am single, and very enamored with her. She has been married over 15 years, and it's not going well in her relationship with her husband. Just last weekend, she and I went to a conference in another city. We spent a lot of time together, and even went dancing. Due to the kind of job she has, things had to remain platonic. She has expressed how much I mean to her, and even calls me her "buddy". Every time I am around her, I feel like I can conquer the world. Now, here is where the crazy part comes in. Her boss wants her to mingle more with others, and less with me. Now I feel suddenly rejected, like her boss is punishing her for being friends with me. This is not setting well, and I am a bit confused. What should I do at this point? Any advice would be greatly appreciated James
>mr james, not knowing both parties but going on what you said your heart is all in. Its those rare moments when as a man, you can have a conversation with a woman and it seems like nothing else matters. time and space seem to stand still when you are around her. the difficult part is stepping away and asking yourself, how can i be what she needs? im not saying that you are looking to be the other man, but as guys we know what "buddy" "friend" means. im not saying the answer is to cut her off, because as men or women, it is a blessing to have an intimate friend of the oppisite sex to give us insite into that latters mind. so being there, but just on the outside of some of things that she has going is going to be great for YOU. being single you can continue to work on what you want. And improve your stock, in her eyes by giving her someone one to look up and see when she is in the thick of her work. but not taking it personal showing her that you understand what needs to be done when it needs to be done. hope that helps. and maybe you will have some help for me later

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Friday 20 April 2012

[marriagerestoration] God is Able to Sustain You!! - Apr. 20, 2012 - Doreen's Daily Delights

 

God is Able to Sustain You!!

What are you going through today? God is able to sustain you while you go through. Many are still hurting because of the loneliness and feelings of rejection.

God is able to sustain you. I can say to you today without a doubt, the Lord has seen your secret tears. He knows about your situation. He has seen your struggles. The pain and longings will return in your memory from time to time. But your grief and pain will become more bearable as you understand the love, care and sustenance that God has for you.

His mercy and grace are even stronger in your time of need: "Blessed
be the… Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in
all our affliction" (2 Corinthians 1:3-4). God understands as no one
else can.

I can tell you without a doubt that God will sustain you. I remember when I was going through, there was no one BUT God to comfort me. Death seemed very attractive at that time. I could not find an ear to listen to me, nor an arm to hold me. But still I came through with the help of the Lord. Yes, He will sustain you.

Jesus understands whatever agony you're facing at this time. Many
are asking God for a date and time. "When O God will this be over?"
This is a question, ONLY God can answer.

Time is in God's hand. He knows how to get you through your most painful experiences—regardless of their length or intensity. "How long will this continue?" It's different for each of us. But I trust that you will find comfort in knowing that God completely understands your makeup and will sustain you (Psalm 139).

If you are trusting the Lord to see you through, I can say with
confidence that He will not fail nor forsake you. Therefore you can
confidently say "…that neither death nor life…nor anything else in
all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in
Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). And you can claim God's
promise: "I will never leave you nor forsake you" (Hebrews 13:5).

Allow God's promise and presence sustain you even while you go
through this situation in your marriage. Keep trusting, keep
believing, you won't be put to shame.

Be encouraged

Pastor Doreen
2778 NW 193 Terr. Miami, FL 33056

Please prayerfully consider supporting this ministry by planting a
seed so we can continue to help the hurting. God is no man's
debtor. Remember, in order to reap, we must sow. May God bless you.

I want to thank those who have been assisting me in this quest for the healing of marriages. Without your prayers and financial support, there is no way I would be able to encourage and minister to many. I thank God daily for your obedience and faithfulness.

This Ministry is 501(c)(3) certified by IRS and your gift is qualified for tax deductions. Thanks for your faithfulness.

Be encouraged
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2778 NW 193 Terr. Miami Gardens, FL 33056
http://marriagerestorationministries.org/mrm-pages001.html

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[Supertraining] Digest Number 4553

Messages In This Digest (1 Message)

1a.
Re: 1 Rep Max From: Ralph Giarnella

Message

1a.

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Ralph Giarnella" ragiarn@yahoo.com   ragiarn

Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:15 am (PDT)



I have been following this discussion with interest.  

My understanding of Max1rm is that it is simply a bench mark for an individual to use as a means of planning a training regimen and to measure progress over time.  

How this is  Max 1rm is done probably matters only to the individual as long as every time it is measured it is conducted in the same manner. 

I am not sure that the Max 1 rm really measures max force but rather max effort.  Measurement of force requires in its equation rate of acceleration.

Force = Mass (x) Acceleration

Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA 

________________________________
From: John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net>
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max


 
I think often we get confused with what we are looking at. Keith is 100%
correct that in a "TRUE" 1RM effort we will be applying the greatest muscle
and mechanical force we can to that effort and "speed" will be a by-product
of that effort.

The confusion I speak of is when we begin to combine a specific
"competitive" lift and the rule parameters of that lift, which may include a
speed, or a pause, or some other component that will actually be NOT
representative of a TRUE 1RM effort.

So the take home is that the speed component is an observable by-product of
a 1RM (or any RM) but it is NOT the component that defines the effort as a
1RM.

Regards,

John Casler
TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
Century City, CA

-||||--------||||-

-----Original Message-----
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Keith Hobman
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54 AM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max

Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests
neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by requirements
outside of force and velocity.

Keith Hobman
Saskatoon, Canada

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Thursday 19 April 2012

[marriagerestoration] It Will Work For Your Good - Apr. 19, 2012 - Doreen's Daily Delights

 

It Will Work For Your Good!!

Rom. 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them
that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Know that God's plan for your life involves everything (ALL) that
happens to you. Your hurt, mistakes, your sins, past, present and
future. All of your pain and misunderstandings. Does that really
mean "all things", Yes, it does.

Your spouse may have walked away, but your God who can do the impossible, is able to turn your situation around and bring deliverance. Is anything too hard for God?

God prevails at all times and no stubbornness can thwart the plan of God. God is able to work in any situation. They meant evil against you, but God is still able to work.

Trust the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding.

God allows the difficulty because He is more interested in your
character than in your comfort. He wants to perfect you, not pamper
you. Sometimes we don't quite understand that. His goal for our
life is holiness, not happiness.

Rom. 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them
that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Therefore if you love God, your situation will work together for your
good. Even when you don't understand, trust God anyhow.

I want to thank the very few who have been assisting me in this quest for the healing of marriages. Without your prayers and financial support, there is no way I would be able to encourage and minister to many. I thank God daily for your obedience and faithfulness.

This Ministry is 501(c)(3) certified by IRS and your gift is qualified for tax deductions.

Thanks for your faithfulness.

Be encouraged
Pastor Doreen
2778 NW 193 Terr. Miami Gardens, FL 33056
http://marriagerestorationministries.org/mrm-pages001.html

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Telephone Counseling: Licensed Marriage Counselor. In addition to daily encouragement, I also offer telephone counseling in order to help support the Ministry. I do not charge a fee, but a donation to the Ministry would be appreciated.

Yahoo Site: www.marriagerestorationministries@yahoogroups.com

Website: http://marriagerestorationministries.org/

Email address: marriagerestoration@msn.com

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[Supertraining] Digest Number 4552

Messages In This Digest (6 Messages)

1a.
Re: 1 Rep Max From: Giovanni Ciriani
1b.
Re: 1 Rep Max From: Mark Helme
1c.
Re: 1 Rep Max From: Keith Hobman
1d.
Re: 1 Rep Max From: samuel9888
1e.
Re: 1 Rep Max From: John Casler
2a.
Re: Acid in gut From: Ralph Giarnella

Messages

1a.

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Giovanni Ciriani" Giovanni.Ciriani@Gmail.com   gciriani

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:44 am (PDT)



You didn't look at the graph carefully. One curve has Force on the left
axis and velocity on the horizontal axis. The other curve has power on the
right axis and velocity on the horizontal axis.
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Keith Hobman <keith.hobman@usask.ca> wrote:

> **
>
>
> The graph depicts a muscle force relationship. Power and force are
> different than force and velocity.
>
> A 1RM tests neither. Within defined movements it is a measure of how much
> you can lift - absolute strength in a way, since time isn't generally taken
> into account. I realize this is simplistic, especially in the case of the
> olympic lifts where tremendous amounts of force and considerable speed is
> required. None the less, the rules of the snatch and the c&j are not 'time'
> dependent. Within the time allocated to the lifter on the platform you
> could perform a snatch superslow if you wanted and if you met the rules it
> would still be a good lift.
>
> Ditto for powerlifts. A deadlift takes a lot of force, but I've seen some
> lifts that are tremendously explosive (THE PHANTOM!!!) and some people
> crank it down a gear or two and take forever to get to lockout.
>
> Keith Hobman
> Saskatoon, Canada
>
>
> On 4/16/12 10:57 AM, Giovanni Ciriani wrote:
> > John,
> > Maximum power, according to the articles I have read, takes place at
> about
> > 1/3 of maximum force. See also the graph
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Muscle_Force_Velocity_relationship.png
> > Therefore what your are saying implies that 1RM is at about 1/3 of
> maximum
> > force. Is that what you mean?
> > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:54 AM, John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > > **
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Regarding the SPEED of a 1RM;
> > >
> > > A 1RM will always be performed at the maximum safe speed, or else it
> will
> > > not represent a 1RM.
> > >
> > > Any effort attempted to use a "timed" or speed controlled rep will
> detract
> > > from maximal effort, and will not yield a 1RM.
> > >
> > > A 1RM is representative of the maximum load, resistance, or weight
> that one
> > > can use for a single rep of an action. If we employ a speed controlled
> > > (TUL) component, the level of ability to use the load will be
> compromised.
> > >
> > > While we will certainly observe that some 1RM's will appear to move
> slowly,
> > > this is relative to the load moved. A heavy load will reduce speed when
> > > increased until their will be an inability to produce motion.
> > >
> > > I might add, that a 1RM will also represent maximum Power Expression
> for a
> > > lift, action, or exercise.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > John Casler
> > > TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> > > Century City, CA
> > >
> > > -||||--------||||-
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
> > > On Behalf Of samuel9888
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:13 AM
> > > To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
> > >
> > > Hi Giovanni,
> > >
> > > I don't understand the question--the "speed for recording 1RM?"
> > >
> > > The only thing I can think of where speed is relevant to your question
> is
> > > if
> > > you are video-recording the attempt: the speed of the camera. But
> speed has
> > > no relevance to testing for a 1RM: the person can perform the lift or
> > > he/she
> > > can't.
> > >
> > > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > > Bellevue, NE
> > >
> > > --- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com, Giovanni Ciriani
> > > <Giovanni.Ciriani@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Teresa,
> > > > What's the correct speed for recording 1RM?
> > > >
> > > > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM, samuel9888 <Sam68123@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Mark,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure some protocals are in "Essentials of Strength and
> > > Conditioning"
> > > from NSCA (Baechle and Earle) or "Designing Resistance Training
> Programs"
> > > Fleck and Kraemer). I never actually conducted one in a lab setting.
> In a
> > > free-living, practical setting (training non-sthletes), it isn't
> really all
> > > that useful.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Accurate results" is a very elusive concept for this test because
> > > there
> > > are too many variables to control. At best, you can get today's
> one-rep max
> > > on an individual. Also, it's not that necessary, or sometimes even
> > > advisable, to perform a one-rep max test for individuals unless you are
> > > performing a research study where such test results are outcome
> variables.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you Google "1-rep max test protocol", I'm sure you'll run across
> > > some
> > > scholarly references that will point you toward the protocol they used.
> > > > >
> > > > > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > > > > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > > > > Bellevue, NE
> > > > >
> > > > (meterial deleted)
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > Modify/cancel your subscription at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> > >
> > > Sign all letters with full name & city of residence if you wish them
> to be
> > > published!
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1b.

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Mark Helme" mark-helme@sky.com   mark521668

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:45 am (PDT)



Hi all,

I am not sure why this time/speed element is so much of an issue.

The 1RM test is a test of strength which is the ability to produce maximal
force in a single voluntary action. This in no way is associated with a time
component, if it where it would be a squat jump power test.

The only factors to be assessed in a 1RM test, is do they maintain correct
technique and how much do they lift.

To answer the initial question, I use the ACSM's protocol, which I believe
is similar to the protocol in Baechle & Earle's text.

Mark Helme

Wakefield, UK

From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of John Casler
Sent: 16 April 2012 19:49
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max

Hi Giovanni,

Actually I misspoke (mistyped?) and a 1RM is not representative of the Max
Power Expression, as far as peak power. Sorry for the confusion.

However, I still represent that a 1RM is always performed at the fastest
speed safely possible.

Regards,

John Casler
TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
Century City, CA

-||||--------||||-

-----Original Message-----
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On Behalf Of Giovanni Ciriani
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 9:57 AM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max

John,
Maximum power, according to the articles I have read, takes place at about
1/3 of maximum force. See also the graph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Muscle_Force_Velocity_relationship.png
Therefore what your are saying implies that 1RM is at about 1/3 of maximum
force. Is that what you mean?
Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:54 AM, John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net
<mailto:bioforce.inc%40gte.net> > wrote:

> **
>
>
> Regarding the SPEED of a 1RM;
>
> A 1RM will always be performed at the maximum safe speed, or else it
> will not represent a 1RM.
>
> Any effort attempted to use a "timed" or speed controlled rep will
> detract from maximal effort, and will not yield a 1RM.
>
> A 1RM is representative of the maximum load, resistance, or weight
> that one can use for a single rep of an action. If we employ a speed
> controlled
> (TUL) component, the level of ability to use the load will be compromised.
>
> While we will certainly observe that some 1RM's will appear to move
> slowly, this is relative to the load moved. A heavy load will reduce
> speed when increased until their will be an inability to produce motion.
>
> I might add, that a 1RM will also represent maximum Power Expression
> for a lift, action, or exercise.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Casler
> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> Century City, CA
>
> -||||--------||||-
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> On Behalf Of samuel9888
> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:13 AM
> To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
>
> Hi Giovanni,
>
> I don't understand the question--the "speed for recording 1RM?"
>
> The only thing I can think of where speed is relevant to your question
> is if you are video-recording the attempt: the speed of the camera.
> But speed has no relevance to testing for a 1RM: the person can
> perform the lift or he/she can't.
>
> Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> Bellevue, NE
>
> --- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com> , Giovanni Ciriani
> <Giovanni.Ciriani@...> wrote:
> >
> > Teresa,
> > What's the correct speed for recording 1RM?
> >
> > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM, samuel9888 <Sam68123@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Mark,
> > >
> > > I'm sure some protocals are in "Essentials of Strength and
> Conditioning"
> from NSCA (Baechle and Earle) or "Designing Resistance Training Programs"
> Fleck and Kraemer). I never actually conducted one in a lab setting.
> In a free-living, practical setting (training non-sthletes), it isn't
> really all that useful.
> > >
> > > "Accurate results" is a very elusive concept for this test because
> there
> are too many variables to control. At best, you can get today's
> one-rep max on an individual. Also, it's not that necessary, or
> sometimes even advisable, to perform a one-rep max test for
> individuals unless you are performing a research study where such test
results are outcome variables.
> > >
> > > If you Google "1-rep max test protocol", I'm sure you'll run
> > > across
> some
> scholarly references that will point you toward the protocol they used.
> > >
> > > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > > Bellevue, NE
> > >
> > (meterial deleted)
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Modify/cancel your subscription at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
>
> Sign all letters with full name & city of residence if you wish them
> to be published!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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Sign all letters with full name & city of residence if you wish them to be
published!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1c.

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "Keith Hobman" keith.hobman@usask.ca   khobman800

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:12 am (PDT)



Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by requirements outside of force and velocity.

Keith Hobman
Saskatoon, Canada

On 4/17/12 10:17 AM, Giovanni Ciriani wrote:
> You didn't look at the graph carefully. One curve has Force on the left
> axis and velocity on the horizontal axis. The other curve has power on the
> right axis and velocity on the horizontal axis.
> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
>
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Keith Hobman <keith.hobman@usask.ca> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > The graph depicts a muscle force relationship. Power and force are
> > different than force and velocity.
> >
> > A 1RM tests neither. Within defined movements it is a measure of how much
> > you can lift - absolute strength in a way, since time isn't generally taken
> > into account. I realize this is simplistic, especially in the case of the
> > olympic lifts where tremendous amounts of force and considerable speed is
> > required. None the less, the rules of the snatch and the c&j are not 'time'
> > dependent. Within the time allocated to the lifter on the platform you
> > could perform a snatch superslow if you wanted and if you met the rules it
> > would still be a good lift.
> >
> > Ditto for powerlifts. A deadlift takes a lot of force, but I've seen some
> > lifts that are tremendously explosive (THE PHANTOM!!!) and some people
> > crank it down a gear or two and take forever to get to lockout.
> >
> > Keith Hobman
> > Saskatoon, Canada
> >
> >
> > On 4/16/12 10:57 AM, Giovanni Ciriani wrote:
> > > John,
> > > Maximum power, according to the articles I have read, takes place at
> > about
> > > 1/3 of maximum force. See also the graph
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Muscle_Force_Velocity_relationship.png
> > > Therefore what your are saying implies that 1RM is at about 1/3 of
> > maximum
> > > force. Is that what you mean?
> > > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:54 AM, John Casler <bioforce.inc@gte.net>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the SPEED of a 1RM;
> > > >
> > > > A 1RM will always be performed at the maximum safe speed, or else it
> > will
> > > > not represent a 1RM.
> > > >
> > > > Any effort attempted to use a "timed" or speed controlled rep will
> > detract
> > > > from maximal effort, and will not yield a 1RM.
> > > >
> > > > A 1RM is representative of the maximum load, resistance, or weight
> > that one
> > > > can use for a single rep of an action. If we employ a speed controlled
> > > > (TUL) component, the level of ability to use the load will be
> > compromised.
> > > >
> > > > While we will certainly observe that some 1RM's will appear to move
> > slowly,
> > > > this is relative to the load moved. A heavy load will reduce speed when
> > > > increased until their will be an inability to produce motion.
> > > >
> > > > I might add, that a 1RM will also represent maximum Power Expression
> > for a
> > > > lift, action, or exercise.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > John Casler
> > > > TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
> > > > Century City, CA
> > > >
> > > > -||||--------||||-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
> > Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
> > > > On Behalf Of samuel9888
> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:13 AM
> > > > To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max
> > > >
> > > > Hi Giovanni,
> > > >
> > > > I don't understand the question--the "speed for recording 1RM?"
> > > >
> > > > The only thing I can think of where speed is relevant to your question
> > is
> > > > if
> > > > you are video-recording the attempt: the speed of the camera. But
> > speed has
> > > > no relevance to testing for a 1RM: the person can perform the lift or
> > > > he/she
> > > > can't.
> > > >
> > > > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > > > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > > > Bellevue, NE
> > > >
> > > > --- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com, Giovanni Ciriani
> > > > <Giovanni.Ciriani@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Teresa,
> > > > > What's the correct speed for recording 1RM?
> > > > >
> > > > > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM, samuel9888 <Sam68123@...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > **
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Mark,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm sure some protocals are in "Essentials of Strength and
> > > > Conditioning"
> > > > from NSCA (Baechle and Earle) or "Designing Resistance Training
> > Programs"
> > > > Fleck and Kraemer). I never actually conducted one in a lab setting.
> > In a
> > > > free-living, practical setting (training non-sthletes), it isn't
> > really all
> > > > that useful.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Accurate results" is a very elusive concept for this test because
> > > > there
> > > > are too many variables to control. At best, you can get today's
> > one-rep max
> > > > on an individual. Also, it's not that necessary, or sometimes even
> > > > advisable, to perform a one-rep max test for individuals unless you are
> > > > performing a research study where such test results are outcome
> > variables.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you Google "1-rep max test protocol", I'm sure you'll run across
> > > > some
> > > > scholarly references that will point you toward the protocol they used.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > > > > > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > > > > > Bellevue, NE
> > > > > >
> > > > > (meterial deleted)
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Modify/cancel your subscription at:
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
> > > >
> > > > Sign all letters with full name & city of residence if you wish them
> > to be
> > > > published!
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

1d.

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "samuel9888" Sam68123@cox.net   samuel9888

Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:12 am (PDT)



Hi Giovanni,

Sorry for the delay in response.

Force vs velocity is not relevant to 1RM for any particular exercise. By definition, a 1RM is the maximum weight you can lift for one repetition of the exercise--absolute strength. It is exercise specific.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-repetition_maximum

Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
Bellevue, NE

--- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com, Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@...> wrote:
>
> Teresa,
> Doesn't force change with speed?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_contraction#Force-length_and_force-velocity_relationships
>
> Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
>
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 12:13 PM, samuel9888 <Sam68123@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi Giovanni,
> >
> > I don't understand the question--the "speed for recording 1RM?"
> >
> > The only thing I can think of where speed is relevant to your question is if you are video-recording the attempt: the speed of the camera. But speed has no relevance to testing for a 1RM: the person can perform the lift or he/she can't.
> >
> >
> > Teresa Merrick, Ph.D.
> > ACSM HFS; NSCA-CPT/CSCS
> > Bellevue, NE
> >
> > --- In Supertraining@yahoogroups.com, Giovanni Ciriani <Giovanni.Ciriani@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Teresa,
> > > What's the correct speed for recording 1RM?
> > >
> > > Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA
(material deleted)

1e.

Re: 1 Rep Max

Posted by: "John Casler" bioforce.inc@gte.net   bioforce_inc

Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:59 am (PDT)



I think often we get confused with what we are looking at. Keith is 100%
correct that in a "TRUE" 1RM effort we will be applying the greatest muscle
and mechanical force we can to that effort and "speed" will be a by-product
of that effort.

The confusion I speak of is when we begin to combine a specific
"competitive" lift and the rule parameters of that lift, which may include a
speed, or a pause, or some other component that will actually be NOT
representative of a TRUE 1RM effort.

So the take home is that the speed component is an observable by-product of
a 1RM (or any RM) but it is NOT the component that defines the effort as a
1RM.

Regards,

John Casler
TRI-VECTOR 3-D Training Systems
Century City, CA

-||||--------||||-

-----Original Message-----
From: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Supertraining@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Keith Hobman
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:54 AM
To: Supertraining@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Supertraining] Re: 1 Rep Max

Right, but my point was a 1RM requires force and velocity, but tests
neither. It simply tests the 1RM. The parameters are defined by requirements
outside of force and velocity.

Keith Hobman
Saskatoon, Canada

2a.

Re: Acid in gut

Posted by: "Ralph Giarnella" ragiarn@yahoo.com   ragiarn

Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:45 am (PDT)



Post exercise nausea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_induced_nausea

Ralph Giarnella MD
Southington Ct. USA

________________________________
From: James Beckinsale <jamesbeckinsale@hotmail.com>
To: "supertraining@yahoogroups.com" <supertraining@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 8:49 AM
Subject: [Supertraining] Acid in gut


 

Good afternoon all, I was wondering if anyone has come across athletes (this one is 17) who after high intensity exercise or competition will either feel sick or are sick? It is really effecting a young swimmer I know and is just not very nice for him. Thank you for any help

James Beckinsale M.ScOptima Racing TeamLondon's Premier Triathlon Club
Web: www.optimaracingteam.comTwitter: @OptimaTeam
Mobile: +44 (0)7956 166 989
E-Mail: james@optimatrainingsystems.co.ukTwitter @eggsrinbasket

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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